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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1021 of 1323 (827255)
01-21-2018 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1019 by Modulous
01-21-2018 10:13 AM


Re: nature of time
Physics where a star is? How does that show what time is like there> Ha.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1019 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2018 10:13 AM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1025 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2018 2:42 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1022 of 1323 (827256)
01-21-2018 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1018 by Percy
01-19-2018 6:14 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
No you have not addressed what time is like, or even what it is here actually.

Light arrives, yes. Then we see it! Where? Here! Always here. Only here. Nowhere else ever. So all you see is light here. Not there. Only here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1018 by Percy, posted 01-19-2018 6:14 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1033 by Percy, posted 01-22-2018 1:01 PM creation has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1023 of 1323 (827257)
01-21-2018 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1017 by Percy
01-19-2018 5:35 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
No you have not provided any evidence of what time is like at all actually. You talk of light here. Well, that is irrelevant.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1017 by Percy, posted 01-19-2018 5:35 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1034 by Percy, posted 01-22-2018 1:07 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1024 of 1323 (827258)
01-21-2018 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1016 by Tangle
01-19-2018 4:28 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
taqngle writes:

This is a science thread, so let's stick to science.

There's a very large amount of evidence that tells us that things work the same way elsewhere as they do here. You've been shown some of it. Additionally, despite looking with everything we have, we've found nothing to contradict that.

The supported hypothesis therefore is that stuff happens the same way everywhere. So sure, it must remain possible that stuff is different elsewhere, but until there's any evidence at all that that's the case, the hypothesis stands.

You're objections are irrational and religious. Come back when you have a case.

Yes stick to it! What science have you to prove time exists in deep space as it does here?

Just because something HAPPENS there and is seen here does not mean it takes the same time TO happen!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1016 by Tangle, posted 01-19-2018 4:28 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1027 by dwise1, posted 01-21-2018 3:13 PM creation has responded
 Message 1028 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2018 3:21 PM creation has not yet responded

    
Modulous
Member (Idle past 83 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 1025 of 1323 (827260)
01-21-2018 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1021 by creation
01-21-2018 2:25 PM


Re: nature of time
Physics where a star is?

No.

How does that show what time is like there>

Relativity handles most of that quite nicely.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1021 by creation, posted 01-21-2018 2:25 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1026 by creation, posted 01-21-2018 2:48 PM Modulous has responded

  
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1026 of 1323 (827262)
01-21-2018 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1025 by Modulous
01-21-2018 2:42 PM


Re: nature of time
Relativity handles most of that quite nicely.
Explain how relativity of the fishbowl handles telling us the precise nature of time and space far far away?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1025 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2018 2:42 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1029 by Modulous, posted 01-22-2018 8:03 AM creation has responded

    
dwise1
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Posts: 3212
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 6.3


(1)
Message 1027 of 1323 (827265)
01-21-2018 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1024 by creation
01-21-2018 2:30 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
What science have you to prove time exists in deep space as it does here?

No, you have to prove your claim!

So far all our observations have correlated with each other in a manner that is consistent with the same laws of physics operating the same way in all the observable universe. We have not encountered evidence to contradict that nor to question it.

Now you and other creationists claim the contrary, but offer no evidence to support your position. Furthermore, you demand that we instead must prove our position to you. That is not how it works, Sunny Jim! You make a claim, so you need to support and provide evidence or cogent arguments for it.

And since your claim is so extraordinary, then your evidence for it must also be extraordinary. Yet so far you have presented nothing. Nor do you seem to understand any of the science that you want to wave aside with your unsupported claim. Same as starman (assuming you two are not one and the same).

That means that there is some creationist out there feeding you this nonsense that you are regurgitating here. Please identify your source.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1024 by creation, posted 01-21-2018 2:30 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1030 by creation, posted 01-22-2018 9:40 AM dwise1 has responded

    
Tangle
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Posts: 6387
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 1028 of 1323 (827266)
01-21-2018 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1024 by creation
01-21-2018 2:30 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
creation writes:

Just because something HAPPENS there and is seen here does not mean it takes the same time TO happen!

Until you produce evidence to support your assertion, yes it does.

So let's hear your case. There's a Nobel Prize at stake here, best to get on with it before you're beaten to it.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1024 by creation, posted 01-21-2018 2:30 PM creation has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 83 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 1029 of 1323 (827288)
01-22-2018 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1026 by creation
01-21-2018 2:48 PM


Re: nature of time
Explain how relativity of the fishbowl handles telling us the precise nature of time and space far far away?

They are part of the same spacetime continuum. At some points in this continuum, far away was here - but being a continuum the nature of time and space far far away is the same as the nature of time and space here - as they are subsets of precisely the same entity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1026 by creation, posted 01-21-2018 2:48 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1031 by creation, posted 01-22-2018 9:42 AM Modulous has responded

  
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1030 of 1323 (827296)
01-22-2018 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1027 by dwise1
01-21-2018 3:13 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
dwise1 writes:

...

No. Those who model the universe based on one belief or the other and who call that science, bear the burden of proof. Obviously. Otherwise we all have beliefs, thanks. This being a science forum one would think you would be able to pony up on science claims.

Now we all see you cannot.

Have fun with your religion!

Edited by creation, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1027 by dwise1, posted 01-21-2018 3:13 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1051 by dwise1, posted 01-28-2018 3:54 AM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1031 of 1323 (827297)
01-22-2018 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1029 by Modulous
01-22-2018 8:03 AM


Re: nature of time
moduus writes:

They are part of the same spacetime continuum.

We know you believe that. However you need to do more than state it is so. You have provided no reason to support your belief here. Unless time existed the same at all points what you say is absurd. So..how do you think you know time is the same and exists at all points?

Edited by creation, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1029 by Modulous, posted 01-22-2018 8:03 AM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1032 by Modulous, posted 01-22-2018 10:13 AM creation has responded

    
Modulous
Member (Idle past 83 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 1032 of 1323 (827304)
01-22-2018 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1031 by creation
01-22-2018 9:42 AM


Re: nature of time
We know you believe that. However you need to do more than state it is so. You have provided no reason to support your belief here.

100 years of experimental verification seems sufficient to me. I already mentioned some of them, you must have forgotten. Precession of the perihelion of Mercury, particle accelerators, gravitational lensing etc etc etc.

Unless time existed the same at all points what you say is absurd.

In the same way that length exists the same at all points, time does too. Their measurement varies according the frame of reference of the measurer.

So..how do you think you know time is the same and exists at all points?

As I said - working from this assumption makes predictions which match observations. AKA science.

You are doing an excellent case at inadvertently advertising the need for teaching this and a poor job of justifying not teaching it. I'm not here to teach you relativity, but if you have a specific objection maybe we can find a thread to discuss that in.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1031 by creation, posted 01-22-2018 9:42 AM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1035 by creation, posted 01-26-2018 10:02 AM Modulous has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17984
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1033 of 1323 (827312)
01-22-2018 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1022 by creation
01-21-2018 2:27 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
creation writes:

No you have not addressed what time is like, or even what it is here actually.

I never claimed to have "addressed what time is like," either here or elsewhere. But I did address how we know that the effects of space-time are the same both here and throughout the universe in Message 678 of the thread Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A).

Light arrives, yes. Then we see it! Where? Here! Always here. Only here. Nowhere else ever. So all you see is light here. Not there. Only here.

Why do you think a photon of light is different depending upon its point of origin and where it is observed?

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1022 by creation, posted 01-21-2018 2:27 PM creation has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17984
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 1034 of 1323 (827313)
01-22-2018 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1023 by creation
01-21-2018 2:28 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
creation writes:

No you have not provided any evidence of what time is like at all actually. You talk of light here. Well, that is irrelevant.

I don't think we know much about the nature of time. We know that motion tells us time is passing.

Light, more accurately electromagnetic radiation, is how we make observations (gravity is one other way). We know how space-time behaves - the theory is called relativity. It's been verified to behave the same throughout the universe.

What has any of this to do with the topic about whether we should teach evolution and religion in school? You seem to be discussing the same thing in every thread you join. Instead of splattering the same discussion across multiple threads, maybe you should just start a new thread to discuss this thing that interests you about how we can only know how the world in our immediate vicinity behaves.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1023 by creation, posted 01-21-2018 2:28 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1036 by creation, posted 01-26-2018 10:03 AM Percy has responded
 Message 1045 by creation, posted 01-27-2018 2:34 PM Percy has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1035 of 1323 (827484)
01-26-2018 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1032 by Modulous
01-22-2018 10:13 AM


Re: nature of time
mod writes:

...

Mercury is in the fishbowl, irrelevant.

You cannot take a triangle, and use the small end to represent time in the fishbowl, and then extend the longer parts to stars as if that also represented space and time there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1032 by Modulous, posted 01-22-2018 10:13 AM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1037 by Modulous, posted 01-26-2018 1:23 PM creation has responded

    
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