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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1306 of 1321 (844274)
11-27-2018 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1305 by Tanypteryx
11-27-2018 12:35 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Some people long to keep kids in the dark. We get it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1305 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 12:35 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1308 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 5:06 PM creation has responded
 Message 1309 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2018 6:54 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1307 of 1321 (844275)
11-27-2018 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1304 by RAZD
11-27-2018 7:41 AM


Re: One Trick Pony
Don't pretend some thesis exists. The issues you face are supporting your religion as science. ALL THE THESIS AND CLAIMS AND BELIEFS OF ALL ORIGIN SCIENCES ARE WORTHLESS RELIGION.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1304 by RAZD, posted 11-27-2018 7:41 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1310 by RAZD, posted 11-28-2018 8:03 AM creation has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1895
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 1308 of 1321 (844282)
11-27-2018 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1306 by creation
11-27-2018 4:40 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
creation writes:

Some people long to keep kids in the dark. We get it.

Some people want to teach kids religion and tell them it is science.

Some people want to teach imaginary, fictional fantasies as science.

Some people are uneducated boobs who should never be allowed to teach children anything, except to get a good education so people won't think you're an idiot like them.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1306 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 4:40 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1313 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:37 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3207
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 1309 of 1321 (844294)
11-27-2018 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1306 by creation
11-27-2018 4:40 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Some people long to keep kids in the dark. We get it.

Aye and more's the pity. That is the creationist approach, since they believe that keeping everyone ignorant is the only way that their religion can survive. Of course that is true of their own perverted theology, but not of other truer theologies.

Everybody has heard of Sun Tzu's teaching that victory depends on knowing your enemy -- actually, you also need to know yourself which turns out to be marginally more important:

quote:
Sun Tzu, Scroll III (Offensive Strategy):

  1. Therefore I say: "Know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril.
  2. When you are ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal.
  3. If ignorant both of your enemy and of yourself, you are certain in every battle to be in peril."

(Sun Tzu The Art of War, translation by Samuel B. Griffith, Oxford University Press, 1963)

If parents want their children to grow up to be effective Christian soldiers who can go forth and defeat evolution (and other sundry perceived enemies), then they should want their children to learn everything possible about those enemies. The very last thing that they should want to do would be to keep their children ignorant of what evolution actually is and actually teaches, because by doing so they would be guaranteeing not only their defeat but also greatly increasing the likelihood of their children losing their faith (the attrition rate of the fundamentalist-raised next generation is at about 80%).

Keep in mind that learning subject matter does not require believing in it -- this is contrary to the fundamentalist model of education which is indoctrination for the purpose of compelling belief. For example, during the Cold War the US Air Force instructed us in Marxism and Communism. Obviously their goal was not for their airmen to turn into communists, but rather that we learn to know our enemy.

As for knowing yourself, extremely few creationists do. They accept and repeat creationist claims without any understanding of those claims. Furthermore, they don't even know about let alone understand the basis of "creation science". Nor do they know the history of their claims, especially not how they were all refuted soundly decades ago. As Dr. Jonathan Sarfati of Answers in Genesis (id est, he's a young-earth creationist) described the situation:

quote:
As said in the original Dont Use page, the harm is in using something which is not true, because the cause of the one who is the truth cannot be helped thereby. And your own recent experience reinforces something else we saidthat using discredited arguments can backfire on the user. So our aim was to help Christians to avoid arguments that are likely to backfire, and return their focus to the Word of God not evidence.

...

But more and more over the last few years, we have noticed tens of thousands of Christians excitedly using arguments over the Web, for instance, that are a plain embarrassment to those with scientific training. It was like watching your brother enter the ring thinking he had a killer punch, and watching him get cut to ribbons. Further, and most importantly, it had escalated to the point where it was a hindrance to soul winning, since it gave the hearers a legitimate excuse to reject Christ. And all we did at that point was to publish an advice article. The only time it became relevant to a specific creationist was when Kent [Hovind] himself decided to align himself publicly with a justification of false arguments. If it had been one or two minor points of disagreement, OK, but when it reinforces some of the most blatant fallacies, and even defends fraud, at what point does one NOT face one's responsibilities to the innocents being slaughtered in the belief that they are getting sound ammunition?

...

... , we actually do know people who say they almost gave the faith away when they found out that a particular argument was fallacious, and who say that finding Christians with the integrity to avoid falsehood, no matter what the cost, helped restore it.


Needless to say, you are one of the far-too-many creationists who zealously embrace falsehood, so you are one of the far-too-many creationists who zealously work to destroy the faith of other Christians. And one of your tools is keeping kids in the dark. Stop it!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1306 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 4:40 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1311 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:33 PM dwise1 has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19719
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1310 of 1321 (844323)
11-28-2018 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1307 by creation
11-27-2018 4:42 PM


Re: One Trick Pony rides again
Don't pretend some thesis exists. The issues you face are supporting your religion as science. ALL THE THESIS AND CLAIMS AND BELIEFS OF ALL ORIGIN SCIENCES ARE WORTHLESS RELIGION.

You are correct, there is no thesis to your one-trick pony ramblings. My mistake.

There is also no proposed study plan to use in school.

Further there is no information or question proposed to study in school.

531 posts to date, all wasted bandwidth.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1307 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 4:42 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1312 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:35 PM RAZD has responded

  
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1311 of 1321 (844363)
11-28-2018 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1309 by dwise1
11-27-2018 6:54 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Hey, if you want your kid to be a doctor does that mean you should infect him with every disease and break all his bones, and etc etc??

If you want your child to be a soldier, does that mean he or she should practice taking a bullet to the head??

If you want your child to be a nuclear scientist does that mean you should stick them in a reactor with high exposure to radiation?
No.

They should learn to despise lies, and treasure truth and learn the difference.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1309 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2018 6:54 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1315 by dwise1, posted 11-28-2018 8:35 PM creation has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1312 of 1321 (844364)
11-28-2018 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1310 by RAZD
11-28-2018 8:03 AM


Re: One Trick Pony rides again
All study should involve truth. Your religious fables are dangerous poison for kids.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1310 by RAZD, posted 11-28-2018 8:03 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1314 by RAZD, posted 11-28-2018 8:23 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1313 of 1321 (844365)
11-28-2018 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1308 by Tanypteryx
11-27-2018 5:06 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
The fool's idea of a good education might involve teaching someone, for example, that they were not really the sex they were born with, and that there is no God and no creator. The fools might want such an education to be mandatory.

Wise men and children have to navigate through the sewage, not drink it like fools!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1308 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 5:06 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1316 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-28-2018 8:48 PM creation has responded
 Message 1317 by Pressie, posted 11-29-2018 6:26 AM creation has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19719
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1314 of 1321 (844372)
11-28-2018 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1312 by creation
11-28-2018 6:35 PM


Re: One Trick Pony rides again
All study should involve truth. Your religious fables are dangerous poison for kids.

Message 1311: They should learn to despise lies, and treasure truth and learn the difference.

Seems you haven't learned what you advocate teaching children. Amusing irony.

Science is not religious, nor is it fables. It is fact based conclusions

Fantasies built on fact free personal opinion of biblical myths are both.

Your one-trick pony keeps leaving piles of ignorant underinformed blather. Unfortunately -- for you -- it doesn't contain any evidence to support your assertions, just wasted bandwidth ... just more evidence that creationist arguments like yours are worthless drivel with no place in any school.

You make a strong argument for science and fact based education by demonstrating what develops from the lack of it.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1312 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:35 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1318 by creation, posted 12-01-2018 2:24 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3207
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 1315 of 1321 (844373)
11-28-2018 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1311 by creation
11-28-2018 6:33 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
What complete and utter blithering nonsense! Go back and actually read what I wrote and try to understand it.

Also go to YouTube and watch some videos of Gilda Radner playing Emily Litella, the old lady who would come on the SNL news show with fiery tirades against nonsensical things. Her excuse was that she was hard of hearing and misunderstood something she heard in the news. What's your excuse?

If you are going to oppose something, then at the very least try to learn something about it! You can never win if you only argue out of complete ignorance. At the very least, you need to know what you are fighting. Otherwise, you are nothing but a blithering idiot who does far more to discredit his silly god than to serve it (why silly? Because that is how you present it to be).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1311 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:33 PM creation has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1895
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 1316 of 1321 (844374)
11-28-2018 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1313 by creation
11-28-2018 6:37 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
creation writes:

The fool's idea of a good education might involve teaching someone, for example, that they were not really the sex they were born with

What does this have to do with teaching evolution and religion in school?

I have never heard about anyone who advocates that.

creation writes:

and that there is no God and no creator.

I have never heard about anyone who advocates that.

creation writes:

The fools might want such an education to be mandatory.

I have never heard about anyone who advocates that.

creation writes:

Wise men and children have to navigate through the sewage, not drink it like fools!

Thankfully, your sewage is not allowed in public schools.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1313 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:37 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1320 by creation, posted 12-01-2018 2:26 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1965
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


(2)
Message 1317 of 1321 (844404)
11-29-2018 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1313 by creation
11-28-2018 6:37 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
creation writes:

The fool's idea of a good education might involve teaching someone, for example, that they were not really the sex they were born with, and that there is no God and no creator. The fools might want such an education to be mandatory.

Luckily for for me I was never taught anything like that. Where I'm from sex education was not high on the priority list. It was avoided. The Calvinistic God was taught, though. But nowhere mentioned in any science classes.

creation writes:

Wise men and children have to navigate through the sewage, not drink it like fools!

I was taught to avoid swimming in sewage. They taught me well. Germ theory and all that. No Gods mentioned.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1313 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:37 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1319 by creation, posted 12-01-2018 2:25 PM Pressie has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1318 of 1321 (844536)
12-01-2018 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1314 by RAZD
11-28-2018 8:23 PM


Re: One Trick Pony rides again
There is no fact to origin science models. One of the earmarks of your religion, by the way, is denying you have a religion!!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1314 by RAZD, posted 11-28-2018 8:23 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1319 of 1321 (844537)
12-01-2018 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1317 by Pressie
11-29-2018 6:26 AM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
You can call sewage perfume if you like.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1317 by Pressie, posted 11-29-2018 6:26 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1320 of 1321 (844538)
12-01-2018 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1316 by Tanypteryx
11-28-2018 8:48 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Get out more. Maybe you'll hear about things.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1316 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-28-2018 8:48 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1321 by AdminPhat, posted 12-01-2018 2:40 PM creation has not yet responded

    
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