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Author Topic:   Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 372 of 607 (566356)
06-24-2010 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 370 by New Cat's Eye
06-24-2010 10:15 AM


Re: Gap
Hi CS,
CS writes:
The earth was in chaos when god created it in the beginning.
So what is the generations given in Genesis 2:4-4:24 the history of?
CS writes:
A day, as in a whole day, is an evening and a morning, 24 hours.
Are you saying the light portion of a day is not called day and was not called day by God?
CS writes:
Yeah, the ones you didn't address:
quote:
We can't even be sure that Moses wrote it. In fact, he most likely did not.
...
Yeah, you're one of those all or nothing literalists. Your faith is a house of cards... on a waterbed! No wonder you have to go through so much deception to maintain your positions. You simply cannot face the Bible having an error or else your whole philosophy comes crashing down all the way to not having faith in Jesus any more. That is pathetic. You're a theological child and you show it with your behavior here.

Well God told Moses to write a lot of things in a book and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant which was to be rehershed to the people at least every seven years.
And Yes I am a literalists. I believe in the literal inspired Word of God. I believe the original was perfect. What we have today has been tainted by those copying and translating the originals for the last 3500 years.
That is the reason a person must be born again to understand the things of God.
Paul writes:
2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I do not expect a person who has not been born again of the Spirit of God to understand what is written in the Bible.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-24-2010 10:15 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-24-2010 12:15 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 375 of 607 (566383)
06-24-2010 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 373 by New Cat's Eye
06-24-2010 12:15 PM


Re: Day
Hi CS,
CS writes:
A day, as in a whole day, is an evening and a morning, 24 hours.
Actually if you only have evening and morning you have a dark period of about 12 hours.
To have a full 24 hour day you must have a light period of about 12 hours and a dark portion of about 12 hours.
The length of the light period and dark period is determined as to what time of year it is.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-24-2010 12:15 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-24-2010 1:44 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 377 of 607 (566394)
06-24-2010 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by purpledawn
06-24-2010 1:04 PM


Re: Who, Whom, What, When, and Why
Hi PD,
purpledawn writes:
Again, it is unreasonable to look at these sentences as existing alone from the rest of the piece.
ICANT 1:1 In 1995 I built a house.
1:2 The house was in terrible unlivable shape.
1:3 I repaired the roof.
1:4 We cleaned the inside.
1:5 I replaced all the electrical wiring.
1:6 We replaced all the drywall.
1:7 We painted all the walls.
1:8 We replaced all the furnishings.
1:9 The house was finished and the family moved in.
ICANT 2:1 This is the history of the house in the year I built the house.
2:2 The foundation was poured.
2:3 The foundation block was put in place and the inside was filled will fill.
2:4 The plumbing pipes were put in place, and the fill was leveled and prepared for the pouring of the slab.
2:5 The slab was poured and finished.
2:6 The blocks were laid and the lintel poured.
2:7 The trusses were set, the plywood applied and the roofing installed.
2:8 The framing was installed, dividing the house into 4 bedrooms 3 bathrooms 1 office 7 closets 1, 2 car garage and 1 screened porch the electrical installed, drywall applied and finished.
2:9 The painting done, fixtures and furnishing put in place.
2:10 The family moved in.
You can determine from ICANT 1:1 that in 1995 I built a house.
You can determine from ICANT 2:1 and the history given the details of the house I built in 1995.
From the above you can not determine why the house was in unlivable shape in ICANT 1:2.
Well in 2004 hurricane Ivan came along and did a lot of damage to the house and all the repairs listed from ICANT 1:2-1:9 had to be made so the house was livable.
Please explain the difference in this story and the one I have discussed in this thread concerning Genesis chapter 1 and 2.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by purpledawn, posted 06-24-2010 1:04 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-24-2010 3:01 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 381 by purpledawn, posted 06-24-2010 5:21 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 378 of 607 (566395)
06-24-2010 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by New Cat's Eye
06-24-2010 1:44 PM


Re: Day
Hi CS,
CS writes:
The evening and the morning are one day, unless you are calling god a liar?
I am not calling God a liar but you seem to be.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
I said God called the light portion Day. Genesis 1:5 verifies that.
When you add the evening of that light period and the end of the dark period God called night with morning which God called the first day.
I said God called the light portion and dark portion a day. Genesis 1:5 verifies that.
What comes before the and in your statement below?
CS writes:
"and the evening and the morning were the Nth day."
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-24-2010 1:44 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 385 of 607 (566501)
06-25-2010 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 381 by purpledawn
06-24-2010 5:21 PM


Re: Who, Whom, What, When, and Why
Hi PD,
purpledawn writes:
The difference is that you're recounting an actual event (unless you're lying) that happened to you. As for the layout, there's no difference from your interpretation, because you wrote it to fit your interpretation. As you can see, your story is bassackwards, as is your interpretation.
It was an actual event. Even my condo lost the roof and got all messed up but I did not build it.
So my story was arranged like I wanted it to be.
You are saying it would have made more sense if I had told it like this.
ICANT In 1995 I built a house.
This is the history of the house in the year I built the house.
The foundation was poured.
The foundation block was put in place and the inside was filled will fill.
The plumbing pipes were put in place, and the fill was leveled and prepared for the pouring of the slab.
The slab was poured and finished.
The blocks were laid and the lintel poured.
The trusses were set, the plywood applied and the roofing installed.
The framing was installed, dividing the house into 4 bedrooms 3 bathrooms 1 office 7 closets 1, 2 car garage and 1 screened porch the electrical installed, drywall applied and finished.
The painting done, fixtures and furnishing put in place.
The family moved in.
The house was in terrible unlivable shape.
I repaired the roof.
We cleaned the inside.
I replaced all the electrical wiring.
We replaced all the drywall.
We painted all the walls.
We replaced all the furnishings.
The house was finished and the family moved in.
Then I rested from all my work.
That is the way I think Genesis chapter 1 and 2 should read but your redactors or somebody decided it was one story and tried to make it look like one story.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by purpledawn, posted 06-24-2010 5:21 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by purpledawn, posted 06-25-2010 8:59 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 386 of 607 (566508)
06-25-2010 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by JRTjr
06-24-2010 7:59 PM


Re: A Question of Days
Hi JRTjr,
JRTjr writes:
I would like to suggest here that you do some research on what God means when He speaks of ‘Death’. {I believe Luke 9: 60, Ephesians 2: 1, and Colossians 2:13 would be a good place to start.}
I am very familiar with those verses.
Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Each of these is referring to mankind who is separated from God because the man formed from the dust of the ground that was placed in the Garden disobeyed a direct command of God and ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Because of his disobedience all mankind was separated from God, when God kicked the man out of the Garden.
Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
What kind of death did God have the writer of Hebrews tell us that we all have to die. I think this is physical death.
Nobody has to die the second death because Jesus did that for them if they will only accept the free full pardon offered by God.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The second death is eternal separation from God. And since mankind is already separated from God because of the sin of one man he must be born again to escape the penalty of the second death.
There is no escape from the penalty of the first death.
JRTjr writes:
I am not aware of an ‘Adam 2.0’ created after the first ‘Adam’ created by God.
There is no Adam 1.0 or 2.0.
There is a man formed from the dust of the ground that God breathed the breath of life into and that form became a living being. Genesis 2:7.
There is mankind that is created male and female in the image/likeness of God in Genesis 1:26, 27.
adam is the transliteration of the Hebrew word for mankind, or man. It is not a proper name like Cain or Abel.
The translators did not translate the Hebrew word they used the English letter equivalent of the Hebrew letter.
JRTjr writes:
If I am understanding your hypothesis correctly; you’re saying that we are descendants of ‘Adam 1.0’ {Genesis chapter one} and that ‘Adam 2.0’ {Genesis chapter two} physically died in the 24-hour ‘day’ that he eat from the tree that God told him not to. Correct?
My hypothesis as you call it goes like this.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
This day is a light period that ends in Genesis 1:2.
Day is determined by God's definition in:
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
God called the light portion Day.
God called the dark portion Night.
God called the combination of the light that ended with evening and the morning which ended the dark period of Genesis 1:2 the first Day.
During the light portion of the day of Genesis the generations/history of the heavens and the earth was given in the verses that followed Genesis 2:4.
In Genesis 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
In Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul/being.
In Genesis 2:8 God planed a garden eastward in Eden and put the man there.
In Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
In Genesis 2:10-14 Tells us of a river that divides into 4 rivers.
In Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
In Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
In Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
In Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
In Genesis 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
In Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
In Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
In Genesis 3:1-6 Satan speaking through the serpent convinced the woman she would become as God by eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
She then gave to the man and he did eat.
Then we have the blame somebody else game begin.
God chased them out of the garden.
In Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
In Genesis 4:3 And in process 7093 of time 3117 it came to pass, that Cain 7014 brought 935 of the fruit 6529 of the ground 127 an offering 4503 unto the LORD 3068.
Strongs numbers are provided so you can look up the words and definitions for yourself.
Hebrew word qets which means end is translated "And in process" 7093.
Many think this process is days, weeks, or months. That's not supported.
Hebrew word yowm which God defined as a light period or the combination of a light period and a dark period is translated "of time" 3117.
In Genesis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
In Genesis 4:17-24 We have the generations of the man formed from the dust of the ground through his firstborn son Cain.
There is no ages given for anyone.
There was no way to tell time as it was just existence in a light period that ended in the evening found in Genesis 1:2.
Couple that evening with the dark period that ended with morning God declared that the first Day.
Beginning at Genesis 1:3 we have the restoration of the earth as found in Genesis 1:2 that it might be inhabited again by mankind.
In the following verses we have great whales created in Genesis 1:21.
We have mankind created in Genesis 1:27.
Everything else was brought forth after their kind and the vegetation from the seed that was on the ground after their kind.
JRTjr writes:
If ‘Adam 2.0’ physically died in the 24-hour ‘day’ that he eat from the tree that God told him not to then why would God tell ‘Adam 2.0’ that, as part of his punishment for eating the forbidden fruit he would have to toil the ground All of the days of his life? {Genesis 3: 17}
yowm a masculine noun is not plural. The markings that make it plural was not added until somewhere between 600 AD and 1000 AD.
JRTjr writes:
It also accurse to me that the Bible states that sin came into the world through Adam’s sin.{Romans 5: 12} If ‘Adam 2.0’ physically died in the 24-hour ‘day’ that he eat from the tree that God told him not to then how was his sin transmitted?
Why does it have to be transmitted?
Sin is not inheritable.
And yes by one man sin entered into the universe. The penalty for that sin is death.
And yes man was separated from God by the man eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
This man did not have the knowledge of good and evil until he ate the fruit and his eyes was opened to evil. This man was not created in the image/likeness of God. Had he been he would have had the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Man had become like God, knowing good and evil.
When he ate the fruit God had to drive him out of the garden lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever with sin in his members.
JRTjr writes:
I pray I have given you food for thought; you certainly have given me many things to consider.
You supplied a fantastic piece of information. I have been arguing that the man formed from the dust was not created in the image/likeness of God and it became clear why the Holy Spirit had put those thoughts in my mind as I typed this post to you.
Had the man formed from the dust of the ground been in the image/likeness of God he would have known good and evil. He would not have become like God knowing good and evil.
So thanks for the food.
I think that was the last piece of the puzzle that I needed.
God Bless you and yours,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by JRTjr, posted 06-24-2010 7:59 PM JRTjr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by JRTjr, posted 06-30-2010 11:47 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 387 of 607 (566510)
06-25-2010 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 384 by greentwiga
06-24-2010 10:52 PM


Re: Yom
Hi greentwiga,
greentwiga writes:
Thus the generations of the heavens and earth cover at least 8 generations and is listed as one day.
Why couldn't the 8 generations of people in the generations of the heavens and the earth take place in one day?
God defined day as a light period.
If there was no night in existence would it not be the Day.
The day the Heaven and the Earth was created did not cease from the beginning until we find evening at Genesis 1:2 which coupled with the dark period that closed with the morning which God declared the first Day.
You ask how long was that light period? There is no way of knowing. It could have been some 13 to 20 billion years in our time but in eternity it was just one great big now.
God bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by greentwiga, posted 06-24-2010 10:52 PM greentwiga has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by greentwiga, posted 06-25-2010 11:05 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 390 of 607 (566555)
06-25-2010 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 389 by Dawn Bertot
06-25-2010 9:35 AM


Re: Satan
Hi DB,
Dawn Bertot writes:
Does that make sense to you?
There are a lot of things that don't make sense to me.
One is why an omnipotent God allows His Word to be changed by mankind.
He is omnipotent and could cause the Word to come out of the presses like He said it regardless of what is input by humans.
That would really shake up the apple cart wouldn't it?
Dawn Bertot writes:
You are way to smart an individual to believe such things
Well I believe a person can go to Heaven just because he takes God at His Word and trusts Him for salvation, without ever being a member of the church or being baptized or doing one good work of anykind.
You can't get much further out than that. About 95% of so called christianity disagrees with me. So What?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Dawn Bertot, posted 06-25-2010 9:35 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by Dawn Bertot, posted 06-25-2010 10:10 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 392 of 607 (566557)
06-25-2010 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 388 by purpledawn
06-25-2010 8:59 AM


Re: Who, Whom, What, When, and Why
Hi PD,
purpledawn writes:
What is your purpose?
I have no purpose.
purpledawn writes:
What are you trying to tell your audience?
I like Moses don't have an audience.
purpledawn writes:
I see no useful purpose for your hypothesis.
I tend to agree with you.
Now if you will explain to me how I can get all these thoughts out of my mind that I have all my waking hours which is about 18 hours a day I would be grateful.
I have a burning desire in my mind to share these thoughts that keep entering my mind.
I would much rather spend the last few years of my life playing golf and fishing than sitting at a keyboard staring into a monitor and typing words that will probably have no meaning to anyone but me.
So hopefully when I get the book finished I can finally be rid of the thoughts and get on with the rest of my life.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by purpledawn, posted 06-25-2010 8:59 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by purpledawn, posted 06-25-2010 2:11 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 393 of 607 (566560)
06-25-2010 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 391 by Dawn Bertot
06-25-2010 10:10 AM


Re: Satan
Hi DB,
DB writes:
There are no inbetween creatures as you are suggesting.
Lets see;
There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit which is God.
There are good angels, Gabriel and his angels are messengers.
Michael and his angels who are protectors and fight the battles of God.
There are evil angels which follow Satan.
There is mankind who has the freewill to choose what he does.
There are animals that do as god programed them to do by giving them instinct.
Now Which of those was God talking about when He said:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Now did God create an evil Satan?
OR
Did God create a Satan with the potential to become evil?
Isaiah quoted God as saying He created evil.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Dawn Bertot, posted 06-25-2010 10:10 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by Dawn Bertot, posted 06-27-2010 6:02 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 395 of 607 (566568)
06-25-2010 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by greentwiga
06-25-2010 11:05 AM


Re: Yom
Hi greentwiga,
greentwiga writes:
Since Gen 1 and 2 doesn't limit day to 24 hours, I am comfortable with the Days of Gen 1 being time periods of any length. The focus is on the event. When it ends, the day ends.
But it does limit a day to a light period and a dark period.
Would you agree with God's definition of yowm?
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
God called a light period Day.
God called the combination of a light period and a dark period the first day.
Did God know what He was talking about when He declared a light period Day?
Did God know what He was talking about when He declared a light period and a dark period the first Day?
Did God know what He was talking about when He said:
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
God said that the light period that began with the morning that ended the first Day ended with the evening that began the dark portion that ended with the morning of the third day was the second day.
That declares that a light portion and a dark portion was declared a day.
Conclusion:
God called a light period Day.
God called combination of a light period and a dark period Day.
Is God's definition of Day correct?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by greentwiga, posted 06-25-2010 11:05 AM greentwiga has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by greentwiga, posted 06-25-2010 4:03 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 397 of 607 (566600)
06-25-2010 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by jaywill
06-23-2010 4:53 AM


Re: God's Instruction's
Hi Jay,
I missed this post.
jaywill writes:
No. I mean the word adam appears in Genesis 1:26.
The word Adam does not appear in Genesis 1:26.
The transliteration of the Hebrew word adam does appear in verse 26 but it is translated man.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
jaywill writes:
I do understand that because the footnote in my Bible says for Gen. 1:26 - " Or, mankind; Heb. adam, So also in the next verse ..."
If you understand it is a transliteration why do you keep insisting that it is a proper name, as you do by saying that because the man in Genesis 2:7 is called Adam and the man created in the image of God is called Adam in Genesis 5:1 that they must be the same man.
Then you insist the man in Genesis 2:7 is the man in 5:1 because he is identified as the individual (proper name) Adam.
jaywill writes:
The geneologies identify the individual Adam.
So no you do not understand that it is a transliteration of the Hebrew word which means mankind/man.
You use it as a proper name which it is not.
Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
These verses declare the generations of the mankind created in the image/likeness of God.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
These verses declare that this mankind was created in the image/likeness of God.
Conclusion the generations given beginning in Genesis 5:1 is the generations of the mankind created in Genesis 1:26. 27.
jaywill writes:
This is a dogmatic view. It says "I have no interpretation".
If believing what the text says make my view dogmatic then I have a dogmatic view.
jaywill writes:

jaywill writes:
1.) The usage of "yom" cannot mean anything but something like "before the next darkness falls".
All you have to do is accept the Word of God.
You mean all I have to do is accept your dogmatic opinion here.
But I don't think you are interpreting the passage rightly.
What interpretation is required in the following verse.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Light = Day
Light + darkness = Day
yowm = Day
Where is that interpreted wrong?
jaywill writes:
It told us that God breathed into his nostrils this spirit.
And Job 32:8 says "There is a spirit in man, and the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding"
So this created man possessed God's breath as his own human spirit.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
This says God breathed the breath of life into the man.
It does not say God inserted a spiritual man in this form.
Well the problem is that God did not breathe the second breath into that form. The system God set in motion did that.
But lets say this man had a body, a mind, and God put his spirit in the man. That would mean the man was in the image/likeness of God.
Does God know good and evil?
The man in his image/likeness would also know good and evil.
That would eliminate the tree of the knowledge of good and evil being necessary.
Why did God say:
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
How did this man become as God knowing good and evil if he was all ready like God?
jaywill writes:
We were told that man was created in the image of God in chapter one. But you regard that as a different man.
Correct.
The mankind in Genesis 1:27 was created in the image/likeness of God.
The man formed from the dust of the ground and God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils and he became a living being.
Since God knows good and evil this man would have known good and evil as he was created in the image/likeness of God.
This man had to become like God by his disobedience of eating the forbidden fruit. Until that time he was not like God knowing good and evil.
jaywill writes:
What do you think the serpent meant ? It is not SAID right there. Latter in the divine revelation it is SAID.
Where did this question come from?
Give me the words you want discussed and I will see if I have an answer as to what I think he said.
jaywill writes:
He was the first to be recorded as dying. He is followed by scores of others of whom it also says "and he died". Do not try for any reason to make the Adam of Genesis 5:5 some other Adam beside the first man and the Adam of Genesis 2:7.
But this entire thread has been a discussion of a creation story in Genesis 2:4 -4:24 being a different story than the one given in Genesis 1:2-2:3.
You have failed to answer any one of my objections to them being the same.
But you assert that they are.
You assert that the man formed from the dust of the earth in Genesis 2:7 is the same man created in the image/likeness of God in Genesis 1:27.
You do not explain how they can be since:
The man formed from the dust of the ground was formed before any other life form.
The man created in the image/likeness of God was created after all other life forms.
The man formed from the dust of the ground was commanded not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
The man created in the image/likeness of God was told he could eat from all trees. None were forbidden.
Help me out here and convince me they are the same man by solving these two problems.
jaywill writes:
You said that. I didn't.
You have a way of leaving out things when you are quoting which is called cherry picking.
ICANT writes:
jaywill writes:
God could have meant the beginning of the process of Adam's death started and would consummate with his physical death years latter.
If He meant that why didn't He say that?
God could have meant anything but He said:
Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Did God lie when He said --> in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. -->
jaywill writes:
There is no way that I am going to understand Genesis 5:5 as refering to anyone else but the Adam of Genesis 2:7.
"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred thirty years, and he died." (Gen. 5:5)
So God lied to Moses when He gave him:
Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
These verses declared these are the generations of the mankind created in the likeness of God.
The only people said to have been created in the image/likeness of God was created in Genesis 1:27
This is the comments you were responding to.
I ask again:
Are you saying God lied to Moses when He told him:
Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
jaywill writes:
And Gen. 1:27 is given to us again in Gen. 2:7 with different emphasis and some rather paradoxical details.
But that is adam in both passages.
Genesis 1:27 is not given in Genesis 2:7 Genesis 2:7 transpired prior to Genesis 1:2 as it is the history of the Day the LORD God created the Heaven and the Earth.
I will agree that mankind is mentioned in Genesis 1:27 and in Genesis 2:7.
I am not you and you are not me but we are both mankind. At least I hope you are.
jaywill writes:
Something like this could be the case with you. We can be deceived. We can be encouraged to cling to something by evil spirits. We can develop also a "system of error".
Sure we can all be deceived. I could be a brain in a jar the experiment of some alien being fed all the information in my mind.
So if I am deceived why don't you take the scriptures I have discussed and the things I have presented and refute them with what is written in the first 5 chapters of Genesis.
jaywill writes:
We could be led into doctrines of demons in these last days:
I belong to God. He bought me and paid for me at Calvary.
I accepted His offer of eternal life and He sealed my spirit with the Holy Spirit.
Jesus made me a promise in:
10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
10:30 I and my Father are one.
He also sent the Holy Spirit to:
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
The Holy Spirit lives within me and leads me in truth. He can not tell me a lie.
And nobody, or being can pluck me out of Gods hand.
jaywill writes:
If I was too harsh I am sorry.
You can't say anything to me or about me that has not been said many times. So knock yourself out.
I was just letting you know if I ever participate in that kind of thrashing I will be doing it to cause an offense.
jaywill writes:
Dear brother. What do I do when you continue to insinuate that if I do not buy your dogmatic opinion I accuse God of lying ?
Huh ? Is that flattering ?
You take the scripture and show me where it does not say what it says or that it does not say what I say it says.
We are at almost 400 posts and no one had even tried that yet.
You said you had rather talk about other things.
jaywill writes:
Now what do you expect a person to do, when you say that if they do not agree with you, they are saying God lied ?
That's pretty strong too.
You don't have to agree with me.
You do have to agree with what God said through His inspired writers or you have to discard God's Word.
Anyone who disagrees with God is calling God a liar.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by jaywill, posted 06-23-2010 4:53 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 403 by jaywill, posted 06-26-2010 9:01 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 404 by jaywill, posted 06-26-2010 1:45 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 398 of 607 (566607)
06-25-2010 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by purpledawn
06-25-2010 2:11 PM


Re: Who, Whom, What, When, and Why
Hi PD,
purpledawn writes:
Are you close to the finish or just starting?
I have over 2500 pages of information.
I must now begin the process of compacting the information to about 300 pages if I want the book to be effective.
With this last piece of the puzzle I realized last night concerning the difference in the man in Genesis 2:7 and 1:27 I think I have all the information I need.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by purpledawn, posted 06-25-2010 2:11 PM purpledawn has seen this message but not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 400 of 607 (566690)
06-25-2010 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by greentwiga
06-25-2010 4:03 PM


Re: Yom
Hi greentwiga,
greentwiga writes:
Yes, you referred to the first two mentions of day that I stated, the 12 hour day and the 24 hour day.
No I referred to the definition of yowm that God gave.
I will take his definition of what yowm is any DAY over what man has to say. He created DAY so He should know what it is.
greentwiga writes:
There is also the single day that covers 6 days of creation and also covers at least 7 generations. (Gen 2:4)
Genesis2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
This verse does not refer to the seven days of Moses.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth.
This is a declarative statement of completed action.
The Heaven and the Earth existed prior to Genesis 1:2.
Genesis 2:4 is the history of the Heaven and Earth in the day the Heaven and the Earth was created.
That light period DAY the Heaven and the Earth was created had come to evening at Genesis 1:2.
All the things in the history of the Heaven and the Earth recorded in Genesis 2:4 - Genesis 4:24 was accomplished in the light period the Heaven and the Earth was created in.
greentwiga writes:
Also, the day of the Lord, as mentioned in Isaiah and elsewhere seems to refer to a period of "darkness" or oppression, and a period of "light" or God's victory. This seems to be closer to the meaning in Gen 1 and 2.
Isaiah 2:12, 13:6, 13:9 mentions the day of the Lord. In each it is referring to the day God brings judgment.
Isaiah 34:8 mentions the day of the Lord which refers to His vengence.
The day of the Lord appears 380 times in the KJV Bible. In one way or they other they all refer to the day of His judgment in one form or another.
But since God lives in a place where there is no night He is still in the light period the Heaven and the Earth was created in. The day of the Lord lasts for eternity, He knows no night.
You are welcome to your view in the rest of your post.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by greentwiga, posted 06-25-2010 4:03 PM greentwiga has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by greentwiga, posted 06-25-2010 11:27 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 402 of 607 (566701)
06-26-2010 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by greentwiga
06-25-2010 11:27 PM


Re: Yom
Hi greentwiga,
greentwiga writes:
I am confused. Gen 2:4 "The day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens" does not refer to the first day Gen 1:1, when God made the heavens and the earth? Were there two creations of the heavens and the earth?
Sorry for causing the confusion. Usually everybody just tells me I am delusional.
When was the Heaven and the Earth created?
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
This verse says it was created in the beginning.
When was the beginning? Text does not say, it could have been anywhere in eternity past.
The Heaven and the Earth existed at Genesis 1:2 but it was covered with water.
If the Heaven and the Earth existed at Genesis 1:2 then it was created in Genesis 1:1.
When was Genesis 1:2? About 6,000+ years ago.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
This verse says these are the generations of the Heavens and the Earth when they were created.
It further specifies "in the day the LORD God made the Earth and the Heavens.
So we have a light period that the Heaven and the Earth was created in.
"These are the generations" refers to the things following Genesis 2:4 through 4:24
In Genesis 1:5 God gives us His definition of DAY.
A light period was declared a DAY.
A light period and a dark period was declared the first DAY.
It was dark in Genesis 1:2 that means the light portion had ended with evening. You add the dark period until morning and you have the first DAY.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by greentwiga, posted 06-25-2010 11:27 PM greentwiga has not replied

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