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Author Topic:   Cosmology Principle vs the actual center of the Universe
Bikerman
Member (Idle past 4977 days)
Posts: 276
From: Frodsham, Chester
Joined: 07-30-2010


(1)
Message 17 of 38 (571237)
07-30-2010 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by cavediver
06-10-2010 12:26 PM


Nobody has yet used the balloon analogy - excellent (bleedin terrible analogy and a lot to answer for).
I normally start with the piece of elastic analogy when trying to explain expansion and the lack of centre. Pull elastic and your fingers move apart. They are not moving relative to the elastic so each can claim, justifiably, to be stationary. From that POV the other finger is rushing away at increasing speed (and in fact the speed is proportional to the distance - the further away, the faster it recedes).
There is a basic analogy for expansion.
When it comes to inflation - many physicists don't really much like it, it has the feeling of a convenient patch, but it does work and you don't ditch a theory because of it's origin - you test it and try your very best to refute it - that's science.
On GR - we know that GR is wrong, but it is so right for most things that, rather like Newtonian mechanics, it is a very useful and used model. If we can ever get QED/QCD and Relativity together for long enough in the same room without one of them sulking and dividing itself by zero until it feels better, then we will know a bit more. If we ever find the damn elusive Higgs then a bit more still, and if we start seeing micro black holes at the LHC then (and only then) I'll dust-off some string theory texts and start swatting.

This message is a reply to:
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Bikerman
Member (Idle past 4977 days)
Posts: 276
From: Frodsham, Chester
Joined: 07-30-2010


(1)
Message 19 of 38 (571448)
07-31-2010 6:47 PM


Well, it isn't pseudo-science and it isn't junk-science but it does need a health warning.
It is speculative to a huge degree and is nothing I would call a coherent theory - more of a half-developed speculation.
Scientists play these sort of games all the time - fiddle around with some quantities and see what develops. In this case Shu is fiddling with what we believe to be constant - the speed of light.
Many other assumptions are made which are almost equally questionable.
It is the sort of article of interest to the theorist and interesting in that it apparently spots new patterns of behaviour which may have some basis, but I wouldn't attach any more importance to it than any of the huge number of alternative models being played with in universities around the world.

  
Bikerman
Member (Idle past 4977 days)
Posts: 276
From: Frodsham, Chester
Joined: 07-30-2010


Message 21 of 38 (571647)
08-01-2010 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by cavediver
08-01-2010 5:42 PM


Re: The no Big Bang model.
Now don't hold back here...tell us what you REALLY think, and don't cloak it in these neutral non judgemental terms. :-)
I was being a bit 'criticism lite' with it and I really don't like it, but I don't want to give the impression that weird sounding speculation is always pseudo-scientific bollox. As Penrose once said (paraphrasing Bohr)
'You may think that what I propose here is crazy, and I agree - it is completely crazy, so here is the only question remaining - is it crazy enough to be true?'"
In the case of this paper, to borrow another voice from the yoof I teach ...
nah mate it just aint right in the soul, it isn't speekin to me man, no respect for this is my word, I ain't likin this dissin of my man Einstein-a-gogo, you hear wat I'm saytin'? Rrrrresppectttt!
Edited by Bikerman, : No reason given.
Edited by Bikerman, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by cavediver, posted 08-01-2010 5:42 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by cavediver, posted 08-02-2010 3:51 AM Bikerman has replied

  
Bikerman
Member (Idle past 4977 days)
Posts: 276
From: Frodsham, Chester
Joined: 07-30-2010


(1)
Message 23 of 38 (571815)
08-02-2010 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by cavediver
08-02-2010 3:51 AM


Re: The no Big Bang model.
Trust me - I've been there and out of the other side :-)
15 years debating these bunnies does strange things to you periodically. I once caught myself staring at a particularly stupid piece of creationist tripe on the screen and wondering if the whole world was some distopean nightmare, and there was a man jerking the strings just outside the room, testing how far subject bikerman would be pushed by experimental bunny number x01. A sort of Turing test for aliens.
That way lies madness indeed :-)
I find nowadays that it is best to take regular breaks and
1) recharge your own sanity
2) Observe that most people are not as stupid as the vocal minority that you have to engage with on the net
3) Look at the stars and go wow (or whatever phrase you find suitable to express the wonder and marvel of the universe). When the inevitable thought creeps in about how creationists are missing all this wonder for the sake of trying to stick to a text which was never intended literally - don't. Dismiss it from your mind along with the pity it invokes.
Courage mon ami!
Illegitimi non carborundum

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by cavediver, posted 08-02-2010 3:51 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 08-02-2010 4:19 PM Bikerman has replied

  
Bikerman
Member (Idle past 4977 days)
Posts: 276
From: Frodsham, Chester
Joined: 07-30-2010


Message 25 of 38 (572111)
08-03-2010 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
08-02-2010 4:19 PM


Re: The no Big Bang model.
The same points apply. MOND has been around for a while but to my knowledge has not been supported by experiment/observation and you have to be clear that what is advocated is essentially tearing-up relativity AND the standard model. Whilst I am not saying that either is sacrosanct - in fact I would be the first to say that GR looks wrong, certainly at the smallest scale, I am saying that before we burn current theory we need more than this. The meat of it seems to be an attempt to explain anomolous acceleration in the Pioneer craft. I am pretty sure we haven't exhausted all the less dramatic possibilities yet, and to suggest it as support for a different physics seems to me a tad premature.
So, no, I'm neither convinced nor overly impressed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 08-02-2010 4:19 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
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