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Author Topic:   10 Books To Save Humanity!!
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


(1)
Message 16 of 100 (562367)
05-28-2010 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Straggler
05-27-2010 8:22 PM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Straggler, sorry to be facetious, but I don't think Will Shakespeare wrote or even endorsed The complete works of Shakespeare.

And if you're allowed to count The complete works of Shakespeare as 1 of your choices, Coyote should be allowed his Encyclopedia Britannica.

I'd seriously recommend a 10-pack of thrillers. It's a long journey and they don't sound like the sort of crew that would be interested in serious literature. Also, best not to fill their heads with the same ideas that screwed up this planet.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Straggler, posted 05-27-2010 8:22 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 9:26 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 102 days)
Posts: 10188
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 17 of 100 (562368)
05-28-2010 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
05-28-2010 9:08 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
I have a single volume book called "The Complete Works of Shakespeare" on my bookshelf. That counts as one book.

Also, best not to fill their heads with the same ideas that screwed up this planet.

Oh no - Another one who thinks that we would be better off without any of the accumulated creative output of the entire human species.

It makes me wonder why we bother to create anything......(**sniff**sob**sniff**)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 9:08 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Huntard, posted 05-28-2010 9:35 AM Straggler has responded
 Message 19 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 9:47 AM Straggler has responded

  
Huntard
Member
Posts: 2854
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 18 of 100 (562370)
05-28-2010 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Straggler
05-28-2010 9:26 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Straggler writes:

I have a single volume book called "The Complete Works of Shakespeare" on my bookshelf. That counts as one book.


And Coyote has 10 volumes that comprise the complete Enciclopedia Brittanica. Yet his doesn't count?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 9:26 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 9:48 AM Huntard has responded
 Message 27 by Coyote, posted 05-28-2010 11:08 AM Huntard has not yet responded

    
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 19 of 100 (562371)
05-28-2010 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Straggler
05-28-2010 9:26 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Oh no - Another one who thinks that we would be better off without any of the accumulated creative output of the entire human species.

It makes me wonder why we bother to create anything......(**sniff**sob**sniff**)

Don't forget that you painted the doomsday Earth scenario that they need to get away from.

But I do seriously think that apart from dry factual books and manuals, that might save them time and effort on practicalities, let them come up with their own philosophical and cultural ideas. Sure, Shakespeare wrote some good stuff that could be enjoyed and appreciated by anyone at any time. But his work is not definitive. I think it would be a good experiment to see what original ideas a new civilisation might come up with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 9:26 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 9:59 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 102 days)
Posts: 10188
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 20 of 100 (562372)
05-28-2010 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Huntard
05-28-2010 9:35 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
The Encyclopedia Britannica 11th Edition is a 29 volume set!!!

That is stretching the 10 book limitation too far.

And seriously - Is that what we would take to reflect humanities creative achievements and grand accumulation of innovation and insight? A friggin glorified dictionary!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Huntard, posted 05-28-2010 9:35 AM Huntard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Huntard, posted 05-28-2010 9:54 AM Straggler has responded

  
Huntard
Member
Posts: 2854
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 21 of 100 (562373)
05-28-2010 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Straggler
05-28-2010 9:48 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Straggler writes:

The Encyclopedia Britannica 11th Edition is a 29 volume set!!!


I was just making a point. If a compilation of works counts as one book, then how are we to determine when 1 volume is or is not allowed? What if we do something insane and compile the entire EB into one volume? Would it count then?

And seriously - Is that what we would take to reflect humanities creative achievements and grand accumulation of innovation and insight? A friggin glorified dictionary!

That's not what I said, I don't think we should take the EB, encyclopedia's are far too brief on all their subjects. I'll see if I can compile a list of books this evening, but 10 is a bit less I think.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 9:48 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 10:15 AM Huntard has not yet responded

    
Straggler
Member (Idle past 102 days)
Posts: 10188
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 22 of 100 (562376)
05-28-2010 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
05-28-2010 9:47 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Well you can tell that we are a bunch of science geeks here can't you!! I am dismayed at the cultural desert in which I find myself. I thought better of EvC members. At worst I thought no reaction at all. But instead I get "What do we need any of the artsy fartsy crap for?"

Apparently we would be better off with nothing at all. Or maybe a science text book or two to remind us to wash our hands after taking a dump, a trashy novel for the long trip and a glorified dictionary so that will forever have at our fingertips the population of Norway in 2009.

I despair.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 9:47 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 10:54 AM Straggler has responded

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 102 days)
Posts: 10188
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 23 of 100 (562378)
05-28-2010 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Huntard
05-28-2010 9:54 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Would it count then?

If you can find it in one volume on Amazon it counts. How bout that as a criteria?

That's not what I said, I don't think we should take the EB, encyclopedia's are far too brief on all their subjects

Phew!! Sanity/(Creativity) prevails!!

I'll see if I can compile a list of books this evening, but 10 is a bit less I think.

The limit is imposed to make us be very selective and make us think about what is really worth saving at the expense of all else.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Huntard, posted 05-28-2010 9:54 AM Huntard has not yet responded

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 51 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 24 of 100 (562383)
05-28-2010 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Straggler
05-28-2010 7:21 AM


Re: Nothing Worth Saving
Hi, Straggler.

Straggler writes:

Have we achieved nothing as a species? Nothing worth saving and passing on to future generations?

I'm only 27: I still haven't matured enough to learn when to take things seriously. That, and I have ADD, so reading long books is too hard for me.

-----

Straggler writes:

I would have thought the problem would be the tiny limit of 10 books. Instead it appears that those who have replied consider even that too much to bother with.

I basically agree with what Dr Adequate said: there would be sentimental and cultural value in saving certain pieces of cultural literature (novels, plays, etc.), but this surely has to take a back seat to scientific and academic literature, because someone from the colony can write new works of cultural literature that the colonists can become sentimental about.

So, whatever cultural contributions a work of fiction might offer can be completely compensated for by somebody else writing another work of fiction. This can feasibly happen within months of the colony’s foundation.

Not so for science: if our society was without knowledge of evolution, physics, mathematics, etc., it would take multiple generations, and millions of publications, to bring us back to our current state of knowledge and applicability of that knowledge. Even having well-trained professionals in these fields won’t be good enough, because without, e.g., documented evidence and data about the various scientific theories and fields of study, you would be requiring the colony to accept these theories, not because of the evidence for them, but solely on the authority of those few professionals.

Like Dr Adequate, I say that all 10 books must be of a scientific, technological or academic nature, rather than of a cultural or sentimental nature, because science is less easily replaced than culture.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 7:21 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 11:01 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded

  
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 25 of 100 (562390)
05-28-2010 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Straggler
05-28-2010 9:59 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Apparently we would be better off with nothing at all. Or maybe a science text book or two to remind us to wash our hands after taking a dump, a trashy novel for the long trip and a glorified dictionary so that will forever have at our fingertips the population of Norway in 2009.

A more pefect summary of humanity I could not conceive. We're not perfect, but you can't help but love us.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 9:59 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 12:10 PM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 102 days)
Posts: 10188
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 26 of 100 (562391)
05-28-2010 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Blue Jay
05-28-2010 10:34 AM


Re: Nothing Worth Saving
I basically agree with what Dr Adequate said:

DA said that we should not bother with Einstein, Newton or Darwin. That doesn't seem consistent with what you are saying here.

Like Dr Adequate, I say that all 10 books must be of a scientific, technological or academic nature, rather than of a cultural or sentimental nature, because science is less easily replaced than culture.

I think most who are less sciencely geeky than the average EvC participant would say the exact oposite. All the science stuff can be rediscovered but nobody will ever write Shakespeare's plays again. They will be lost forever.

Even having well-trained professionals in these fields won’t be good enough, because without, e.g., documented evidence and data about the various scientific theories and fields of study, you would be requiring the colony to accept these theories, not because of the evidence for them, but solely on the authority of those few professionals.

They are not well trained in the sense of pure science. They are well trained in terms of having the practical skills required to colonize wherever.

But that is a fair point (speaking as a fellow science geek ). So what ten books would you take to preserve the most important aspects of human scientific discovery? That is the question if it is the science solely route you want to take.

Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Blue Jay, posted 05-28-2010 10:34 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5541
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 27 of 100 (562393)
05-28-2010 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Huntard
05-28-2010 9:35 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
And Coyote has 10 volumes that comprise the complete Enciclopedia Brittanica. Yet his doesn't count?

That edition is 29 large volumes.

Edited by Coyote, : No reason given.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Huntard, posted 05-28-2010 9:35 AM Huntard has not yet responded

  
hotjer
Member (Idle past 1899 days)
Posts: 113
From: Denmark
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 28 of 100 (562400)
05-28-2010 11:50 AM


9*(harddisk with 5 TB of books) disguised as books
1*Laptop disguised as a book.

I guess 45 TB cover the most important stuff including crazy things such as H.P. Lovecraft


Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2010 12:08 PM hotjer has not yet responded

    
Straggler
Member (Idle past 102 days)
Posts: 10188
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 29 of 100 (562401)
05-28-2010 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by hotjer
05-28-2010 11:50 AM


BZZZZZZZZTT
Straggler writes:

quote:
For the purposes of this exercise please ignore the fact that the entire British library can fit onto an Ipod nano (or whatever).

10 books......


Hotjer writes:

9*(harddisk with 5 TB of books) disguised as books
1*Laptop disguised as a book.

No cheating!!!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by hotjer, posted 05-28-2010 11:50 AM hotjer has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 102 days)
Posts: 10188
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 30 of 100 (562402)
05-28-2010 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
05-28-2010 10:54 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Straggler writes:

Apparently we would be better off with nothing at all. Or maybe a science text book or two to remind us to wash our hands after taking a dump, a trashy novel for the long trip and a glorified dictionary so that will forever have at our fingertips the population of Norway in 2009.

A more pefect summary of humanity I could not conceive.

We're not perfect, but you can't help but love us.

I'm not loving anyone who hasn't washed their hands after a dump.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 10:54 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 12:32 PM Straggler has responded

  
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