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Author Topic:   Detecting God
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 16 of 271 (567586)
07-01-2010 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by killinghurts
06-30-2010 11:29 PM


Re: Detection of God
Hi killinghurts,
killinghurts writes:
Unless there is a reasonable answer to this question, one can only assume that God is not part of the measurable world, and therefore not part of reality and therefore not real.
The question is:
killinghurts writes:
how someone (or something) would detect God.
By 'detect' I mean "to discover or determine the existence, presence, or fact of".
That makes you a modern day Pharisee which is a hypocritically self-righteous person.
You hide behind the story you believe in that there is no God. When the facts are you believe there is no God higher than yourself.
You have educated yourself until you have no need of a God other than your own mind and what you believe.
Yet you want me to produce evidence that my God exists because if I can't that would get you to 100% rather than your 99.99% belief that God does not exist.
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger you are not the first that demanded evidence of God.
Mark 8:11 And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him.
8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
You are not going to get a sign either.
Now as far as those who have been born again they need no sign but get many.
I liked the gig Huntard made in Message 4 and his explanation in Message 7 about asking for something and getting less than he asked for and saying that was an answer to his prayer.
In reality if he prayed to God and got less than he asked for it was not from God. But maybe his god works that way.
I tell my people to be careful what they ask God for because He might answer their prayer in the affirmative. He does answer every prayer made by His children. He answers yes, no, or wait awhile.
I know for a fact He can and will answer prayer.
So let me open myself up for a deluge of rants.
I began smoking when I was 11 years old because I found out that while working in dry tobacco I would sneeze my head of so to speak but if I smoked it did not bother me.
Well it didn't take long before I was addicted.
By the time I was twenty I was smoking too much and began to try to quit. I quit a thousand times for almost 3 years. Stopping for a little while and then returning to smoking more that ever. I could not quit. By the time I quit I was smoking 4 packs a day which meant I was lighting a cigarette ever eight minutes.
In 1962 while building an interchange at Ocala Fl. I was operating a D7 Cat with 21 631's hauling material to build the ramp on the North side of Hwy 200 on the South bound lane of I75 I realized I had a cigarette in each hand.
Both burned down about 1" I realized I was no longer in control.
One cigarette went one way the other went the other way the pack went over my head and the back of the tractor. I then said God I have a problem I can't solve I need help please take the taste out of my mouth.
From that moment on I have never wanted a cigarette nor can I be around someone smoking.
Now either God answered my request.
OR
I have total control over my brain and body through my mind. I think there are many here that would say that is an impossibility.
Now is there anyone that has a better conclusion as to what took the taste out of my mouth?
OK guys have fun with this one.
I have many such events in my life.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by killinghurts, posted 06-30-2010 11:29 PM killinghurts has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-01-2010 9:55 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 18 by AZPaul3, posted 07-01-2010 10:12 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 20 by sac51495, posted 07-02-2010 1:26 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 24 of 271 (567730)
07-02-2010 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Dr Adequate
07-01-2010 9:55 PM


Re: Detection of God
Hi Dr,
Dr Adequate writes:
Specifically, a Pharisee was a hypocritically self-righteous theist.
I don't know if they believed in God or not I do know they did not follow him and were not His children.
About the Parisees Jesus said:
Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Dr Adequate writes:
Well, I'm certain of that. But why are you?
Jesus said so.
Dr Adequate writes:
Did you ever think of asking for God's help before 1962?
No. I was captian of my own ship and knew I could quit any time I wanted too. I had many times.
Dr Adequate writes:
Atheists can quit smoking too.
Yes they can.
But do you know anyone who ever quit cold turkey, no patches, no gum or helps of any kind without any withdrawl problems?
A lot of people spend millions of dollars each year to quit smoking.
I have never met anyone that was able to throw their cigarettes away and never want or smoke another one instantly.
I had no withdrawl, no problems of any kind physical or mental except without all that poision in my body I gained weight.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-01-2010 9:55 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by dwise1, posted 07-02-2010 12:39 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 29 by Theodoric, posted 07-02-2010 1:13 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 53 by Phage0070, posted 07-02-2010 4:33 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 25 of 271 (567744)
07-02-2010 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by sac51495
07-02-2010 1:26 AM


Re: Detection of God
Hi sac,
Welcome to EvC.
sac51495 writes:
Thank you very much! I enjoyed it!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
People today do not understand that Jesus spending 72 hours in the grave and then coming forth from the grave is the only sign that would be given.
Dr Adequate does not understand that Saul/Paul did not get a sign but a special calling to be an Apostle to the gentiles.
They think we are crazy because we believe in a being they can not detect therefore they can't see how we can believe in such a diety.
I chuckle everytime I think about all the times I pushed for an answer as to where the universe that existed at T=10-43 came from.
The correct answer is "We don't know".
But I have also been told it just is. But when I say God just exists they want to laugh me out of the thread.
They don't realize that to believe what they believe that they have to believe the universe exists by faith.
Without God to produce the universe there would be no universe.
There is one scientist that has said on this site:
" The universe exists - past, present and future as one four dimensional entity."
I don't know how many dimensions there are but I do agree with the rest of the statement.
The unexplainability of the singularity should be a point of detection of God.
The unexplainability of where the universe came from should be a point of detection of God.
The unexplainability of what is holding the universe together should be a point of detection of God.
That is right you pointed out in another post that the universe declares the existence of God.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by sac51495, posted 07-02-2010 1:26 AM sac51495 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Woodsy, posted 07-02-2010 1:00 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 58 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-02-2010 6:25 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 36 of 271 (567777)
07-02-2010 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by dwise1
07-02-2010 12:39 PM


Re: Detection of God
Hi dwise1,
dwise1 writes:
My father. After more than 20 years of smoking regularly, he then spent a year watching his own father die slowly and painfully of lung cancer. In all the remaining 35 years until he died, I only saw him with a cigarette once and that was 20 years after he had quit and was because of a period of very heavy stress in his business.
I am glad to hear your father stopped smoking. I notice you did not say the extent he was smoking and that he did eventually smoke at least one cigarette later.
I was smoking 4 packs of cigarettes a day. That is 80 cigaretts. I went to work at 6 AM and went to bed at 10 PM, that is 14 hours in which I consumed those 80 cigarettes. That is consuming a cigarette every 10 minutes.
dwise1 writes:
Others may find motivation elsewhere, such as in the belief that their god wants them to quit and will help them to do it.
I did not quit smoking because I thought or believed God wanted me to quit.
I wanted to quit because the cigarettes were in control as I had one in each hand and did not even know it.
I had tried to quit many times and could not so I knew I needed help. I ask for that help and got it in the form of never wanting another puff off a cigarette that has lasted 46 years. I can not be in a room with a bunch of smokers that are not even smoking it makes me sick.
This is just a minor thing that I have asked for and received but if I told the others everybody would be convinced I am a nut rather than just believing I am a nut.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by dwise1, posted 07-02-2010 12:39 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 59 of 271 (567862)
07-02-2010 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Phage0070
07-02-2010 4:33 PM


Re: Detection of God
Hi Phage,
Phage0070 writes:
Changes in appetite is a common physical withdrawal effect of nicotine. Once again we see you simply omitting facts that contradict your opinions.
But my appetite did not change to wanting more food. I cut my intake in half but I still gained weight.
The poison was killing me. I grew the stuff I know what chemicals went into producing the crop, and keeping the bugs off.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Phage0070, posted 07-02-2010 4:33 PM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Phage0070, posted 07-02-2010 8:42 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 61 of 271 (567864)
07-02-2010 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
07-02-2010 4:57 PM


Re: Detection of God
Hi jar,
jar writes:
However there is evidence that there was some beginning to this Universe. We can determine that this Universe does exist.
Yes the universe had a beginning.
Yes the universe exists.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
That says God caused the universe to begin to exist.
So what do you say caused the universe to begin to exist?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 07-02-2010 4:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 07-02-2010 9:11 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 65 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-02-2010 10:25 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 62 of 271 (567865)
07-02-2010 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Dr Adequate
07-02-2010 6:25 PM


Re: Detection of God
Hi Dr,
Dr Adequate writes:
What do you call this then?
Instruction to a special person that was to go to the gentiles.
Ananias needed special instructions or he never would have let anyone accept Saul into their fellowship.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-02-2010 6:25 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-02-2010 10:22 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 80 of 271 (567954)
07-03-2010 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by jar
07-02-2010 9:11 PM


Re: Detection of God
Hi jar,
jar writes:
"ICANT" writes:
God Bless,
Which God?
The God of Genesis 1:1 that created the Heaven and the Earth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 07-02-2010 9:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 07-03-2010 2:15 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 83 of 271 (567964)
07-03-2010 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Dr Adequate
07-02-2010 10:22 PM


Re: Detection of God
Hi Dr,
Dr Adequate writes:
Incidentally, if what happened to Saul wasn't a sign from heaven, then what would one look like? Would there also be a brass band and a parade of elephants?
In Acts 3:1-26 we have the story of a lame man from birth who sat at the entrance to the Temple begging alms of those who entered. When Peter and John went to enter Peter said unto him "silver and gold have I none but such as I have give I thee. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." Peter took him by the hand, his feet and legs receive strength and he went into the Temple walking, and leaping and praising God.
The people that knew him was amazed at this event. Peter then preached Jesus to those who were in the temple on Solomon's porch.
This man lame from birth who had been healed was a sign for the Jews in the Temple.
We have another event I recognize as a sign in:
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
5:6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.
This was a sign to the people present and of today. Do not make a vow to God and then not keep the vow.
We have another event I recognize as a sign in:
Acts 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
9:37 And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber.
9:38 And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them.
9:39 Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them.
9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
9:41 And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.
9:42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.
Because this person that was dead was made to live again many people believed. Yes I think this was a sign to those and us today.
We have another event I recognize as a sign in:
Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)
10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
The gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost was a sign unto the Jews that gentiles was accepted by God.
We have another event I recognize as a sign in:
Acts 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
This young man's life being restored was a sign to those in Paul's presence and us today.
Paul tell us in:
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
We have that which is perfect Paul was talking about. In fact by 90 AD it was completed with most of it completed prior to 70 AD.
We now have the Word of God and have no need of signs. If one will not believe the witness we have in the Word he will not receive the witness of any sign that might be given.
As you see here everyone can find an excuse for not believing in a sign.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-02-2010 10:22 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-03-2010 8:19 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 84 of 271 (567965)
07-03-2010 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by jar
07-03-2010 2:15 PM


Re: Detection of God
Hi jar,
jar writes:
Ah, so not the God of Gen2&3; understood.
Ah, but Genesis chapter 2:4 through chapter 3 has the same God as they are the history of the DAY the LORD God created the heaven and the Earth.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 07-03-2010 2:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 07-03-2010 3:54 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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