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Author Topic:   When does design become intelligent? (AS OF 8/2/10 - CLOSING COMMENTS ONLY)
Percy
Member
Posts: 22479
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 635 of 702 (571820)
08-02-2010 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 631 by ICANT
08-02-2010 2:58 PM


Re: Antenna gains
Hi ICANT,
Your Perry Marshall link (HugeDomains.com) describes itself this way:
Do your own Darwinian Evolution experiments with the Random Mutation Generator
Evolution is descent with modification (mutation) combined with natural selection. Marshall's mutation generator does only mutation, no selection, and selection is a key component of evolution. This is very misleading because he is telling people that evolution is just random change while completely ignoring the selection component.
Marshall introduces selection on his explanation page (HugeDomains.com). His examples are fine except that his mutation is rate is far too high. For example, the mutation rate for bacteria is around one in a hundred million base pairs (analogous to Marshall's letters) per generation. By changing at least one letter in each generation Marshall is using a mutation rate that is about four million times greater than the rate for bacteria. Such a tremendous mutation is, of course, fatal, as Marshall clearly shows.
If he applies his selection algorithm to more reasonable mutation rates and has more than one offspring per generation then he'll get much different results.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 631 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 2:58 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 639 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 4:15 PM Percy has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22479
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 650 of 702 (571839)
08-02-2010 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 639 by ICANT
08-02-2010 4:15 PM


Re: Antenna gains
ICANT writes:
The random mutation generator that Perry has is simply a generator that mutates information.
Yes, but it doesn't do "Darwinian Evolution experiments" like he claims, does it, because it cannot perform meaningful selection. That's why it's misleading. Random text substitution is not an analog for evolution.
You need to address the rest of my message that explained why Marshall's descriptive text was also wildly misleading.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Clarify.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 639 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 4:15 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 676 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 8:12 PM Percy has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22479
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 692 of 702 (571980)
08-03-2010 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 676 by ICANT
08-02-2010 8:12 PM


Evolution Generator
Hi ICANT,
I didn't realize this thread was going to be closed. Last night I rigged together a simple evolution generator program. You can find it here:
It is a much more accurate representation than Marshall's of what evolution is really like.
I would appreciate feedback on the program, but I guess not in this thread. I'll start another thread.
AbE: I started a thread for the Evolution Generator program over at Evolution Generator Program.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : AbE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 8:12 PM ICANT has not replied

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