Spider-Man or Superman

I don't really think that's the case. Seems like there are countless examples of costumed vigilantes violating that trust. And the speed with which the populace embraced Superhero Registration following the tragedy at Stamford indicates that the public had long felt that superheroes had not lived up to their end of the bargain.And moreover - what choice were the people ever given? Costumed vigilantism was basically rammed down their throats. Few street-level superheroes ever asked anybody if they could engage on a frequently-violent campaign to "clean up the streets." Few members of the public were ever given the opportunity to weigh the supposed advantages of costumed vigilantism against the likelihood of escalation of conflict by the forces of criminality. Is it? The first comic superhero The Clock was largely little more than a masked detective who solved petty crimes and fought thugs and organized crime types. By the time we get to House of M, even the heroes themselves are radically reshaping reality in ways highly detrimental to the nonpowered populace. That's after about 8 decades of slow escalation in terms of the danger of the villains, their organization, and the destructive power they're able to wreak.I think there's a pretty substantial case to be made that denizens of the World of Comics are substantially worse off as a result of 8 decades of costumed "heroics." Don't you think that, for someone who has Olympic-caliber talent at target shooting, the operation of firearms is a part of who they are? Don't you think someone like an attorney or a policeman, who dedicates themselves to the ideals of justice (to the extent that those figures do), what they do is part of what makes them who they are?A heavyweight boxer may define who he is by the fact that he's good at punching people, but that doesn't mean we let him punch anyone he likes.You know I have an anti-authoritarian streak as wide as the day is long. I don't relish the thought of government intrusion and control over the lives of private citizens. But superheroes themselves are another kind of authority, an elite, unelected fraternity unaccountable to those most affected by their decisions. There must be some middle ground between the unchecked exercise of their power and the dystopian police society the Superhero Registration Act ultimately devolves into. But we do have registration and regulation of both boxing and Mixed Martial Arts competitions and competitors.

hmm...I usually like to play devils advocate here, but this seems to be a no brainer. Marvel is just better. While I did not really read either of the titles, and I like superman more than spiderman, I think spiderman definately has more depth, and is easier to relate too. Though on the other hand, Superman is much more interesting, and why I read comics when I was younger (for the fun and exictement of super powerful characters, not really for story and relating to the characters).

Hi hERICtic, Traditionally, that has been the case and I'm not saying that isn't a tendency for that to be true even today, but really, things have changed a lot. The modern style of storytelling has changed and the characters have changed with it. In a lot of cases, we're talking about the same writers. Is Paul Cornell going to suddenly stop writing convincing characters just because he's moved from Marvel to Action Comics? Of course not. Ant MAN, WONDER Man, the Invisible WOMAN, BLACK Panther, Marvel BOY... and so on... But... you've just listed four of the best realised, most human and empathetic characters in comics! The last run of Starman was almost entirely character driven. The previous incarnation of Blue Beetle (not originally a DC character incidentally) was anything but distant, he had no powers and was even a bit of a doofus. the current Blue Beetle is a classic Marvel-style troubled-teen-with-super-powers. Green Arrow has been a Badass Normal throughout his history, with a very well defined and grounded personality ever since Denny O'Neil decided to make him a raging why-oh-why liberal. And Animal Man? You're kidding? I can't imagine a more down-to-earth super-hero than Buddy Baker. You should check out the Grant Morrison run on Animal Man, it really is a classic, although it does deviate quite a bit form standard super-hero fare as the series goes on. Well, yeah. that is pretty much what they used to do back in the Sixties. DC are a little more prone to it because they developed most of their Sixties characters by revamping Golden Age heroes. That means that some of their characters are nearly seventy years old! Marvel, by contrast, created more original characters in the Silver Age, so they get it a little easier when modernising them. That's why DC have reordered their continuity several times with universe-busting Crises, whereas Marvel never felt the need; they just didn't have as much silly crap hanging around in their history. From the original JLA line-up, exactly half are non-human (Aquaman is half human, half Atlantean). Within a four years, the Atom, Green Arrow and Hawkman - all human - had joined. From the current roster, exactly half are human (one is a giant gorilla!). It's not quite as extreme as you suggest. But that's just the original line-up, which didn't last long. The Avengers have had their fair share of robots, aliens and gods over the years. In fact, they have way more divine heroes than DC and if you think aliens are hard to relate to, good luck relating to Hercules!I don't think it matters what a character's origins are, I think what matters is character development and the general quality of the writing. Even insofar as the "Marvel is more down-to-earth" thing is true, there is a flip-side to it; DC just do cosmic better than Marvel do. Spider-Man may be a more convincing character than Supes, but you can do sci-fi related things in a Superman comic that just wouldn't fly in the pages of ASM.I don't deny that Marvel's characters are a little more approachable, but to dismiss DC's characters as distant and un-empathetic is a criticism that seems years out of date to me.Mutate and SurvivePS; Oh, yeah... I feel your pain brother. But... torrents are your friend. I liked it, but I felt it dragged out too long, with a number of the satellite titles sucking large quantities of ass. Nor was I convinced by the segue-way into Siege. I mean... Edited by Granny Magda, : Smilie problem.

I agree, but I'm not talking about the moral arguments being made. I'm talking about the way that things were portrayed. Marvel made a big show of being editorially neutral during CW, but when I read the comics, it seems to me that they are on Cap's side. Iron Man is portrayed as bbelieving that he is doing the right thing and he makes some reasonable points, but the way he comes across makes it clear that he is mistaken and indeed, events after the Civil War (which I won't spoil for you, but clearly Marvel knew where they were going with this ahead of time) kinda show that Stark was wrong.Plus, Captain America is the moral centre of the Marvel Universe, just as Superman is for DC. If Cap is on one side, it's a pretty clear signal that his side is right. Urgh. Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut. Just awful. I really liked Kelsey Grammer as Beast, but that's about all I can find to say about that film that isn't abuse.Mutate and Survive

What did you think of the Wolverine movie?

Not much. I like Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, but even he couldn't save that film from being a lacklustre, predictable, confused mess. What where half those characters even doing there? They served little purpose. Emma Frost was only in it for about thirty seconds and they still managed to derail her character. Why bother?Also, whilst I have to admit that I hate Deadpool, that movie even managed to screw him up. Making a sucky comicbook adaptation is par for the course, but making Deadpool suck worse than he did already takes a real talent for screw ups. I've seen worse though; some of the action was okay.Mutate and Survive

I agree. The movie was not that good. Even though you like Hugh, I still have a problem with him. As an actor, I like him. I just cannot compare him to the Wolvering in the comics. Hugh is too...clean? Movie star looking? I also hate when they take characters from comic books...........and change their story. Blob ate himself fat? I also liked the Sabretooth from the X-men movies better than the one presented in Wolverine. Movie should have had less characters and much darker.Now Downey Jr nailed Stark perfectly.

Absolutely. His performance was spot on and probably helped seal the deal on the upcoming Avengers movie.Mutate and Survive

I feel like giving everyone on this thread a wedgie!- Oni

You do and you'll get the biggest noogie of your life!

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas JeffersonFor we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- PhatIt has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Yes please!!Or I could tell my Superman and Wonder Woman joke again?

Of the choice given - Spidey everytime.But Batman is surely the darkest and deepest of all super-heroes after the Miller treatment?Wolverine and Daredevil have potential.But I think a postmodern treatment of Captain America is well overdue and could be interesting. Some guy pulled out of the 1940s made into the perfect human being and then unleashed as a modern day super-soldier.The opportunity for attitude comparisons and modern day self analysis are so rife that pop psychologists could have wet dreams for years over that one.

I see you found the tv tropes site: fun, ain't it?

Darkest super-hero has to go to the Punisher under the Max imprint when Garth Ennis wish writing.

Ummm, no, I think I'm good. lol:ni points gun to his head, a single shot is heard::- Oni