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Author Topic:   Circular reasoning
Pauline
Member (Idle past 3736 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 136 of 142 (576777)
08-25-2010 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by crashfrog
08-12-2010 2:00 PM


Re: circular reasoning and evidence
crashfrog writes:
Pauline has proven nothing at all, this entire thread.
So you expected me to 'prove' something? I'm sorry, but I have no such intentions. My intent was to introduce the topic to this community and have a discussion about it. I have introduced the topic, but unfortunately the people here are stupid enough to deviate and start asking me for something else. Which, I cannot help but pity them. For example, PaulK's tantrums about me not producing the evidence that supports God's ultimate authority (and not just me but ALL christians). Have I called atheism into question in this discussion? No. If you want to shut this topic down and talk about our faiths, then PaulK can throw all the tantrums he wants. And I too will have a feast pointing out the absurdities of atheism. I suppose we should do that instead.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by crashfrog, posted 08-12-2010 2:00 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 08-25-2010 6:48 PM Pauline has not replied
 Message 139 by AdminPD, posted 08-26-2010 5:42 AM Pauline has not replied
 Message 141 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2010 7:30 PM Pauline has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 137 of 142 (576785)
08-25-2010 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Pauline
08-25-2010 2:58 PM


The topic being, is the concept of self-authentication valid in worldivews that incorporate an ultimate authority, why/why not?
No, self-authentication is worthless. Self-authentication carries no weight or value. Your claims that your god is valid due to self-authentication is no different then crashfrog claiming he is god due to self-authentication.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Pauline, posted 08-25-2010 2:58 PM Pauline has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 138 of 142 (576817)
08-25-2010 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Pauline
08-25-2010 3:27 PM


Re: circular reasoning and evidence
quote:
So you expected me to 'prove' something? I'm sorry, but I have no such intentions. My intent was to introduce the topic to this community and have a discussion about it. I have introduced the topic, but unfortunately the people here are stupid enough to deviate and start asking me for something else.
Really? First you make a dubious argument that there can't be evidence then when it becomes clear that evidence is needed you claim that you have it and then when asked to produce it you decline to do so.
That seems to be a very odd way to hold a discussion and if it has wandered it seems to be largely your fault for chopping and changing.
quote:
For example, PaulK's tantrums about me not producing the evidence that supports God's ultimate authority (and not just me but ALL christians).
Oh ? It's stupid to ask you for evidence you claim to have ? And "throwing a tantrum" ? I think such a phrase better describes your post here.
So if we might sum up, your OP was wrong in that it IS wise to seek evidence before accepting any source as an "ultimate authority" - and you don't have that evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Pauline, posted 08-25-2010 3:27 PM Pauline has not replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 139 of 142 (576864)
08-26-2010 5:42 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Pauline
08-25-2010 3:27 PM


Argue the Position Please
Participants,
Please argue the position and not the person. (IOW, knock off the name calling and such. Stop making it personal.)
This is a science thread and evidence to support claims concerning the topic is necessary.
Please direct any comments concerning this Administrative msg to the Report discussion problems here: No.2 thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour suspension.
Thank you
AdminPD Purple

Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Pauline, posted 08-25-2010 3:27 PM Pauline has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 140 of 142 (577870)
08-30-2010 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Pauline
08-25-2010 2:58 PM


The topic being, is the concept of self-authentication valid in worldivews that incorporate an ultimate authority, why/why not?
No, it's not, and the refutation of your argument that it is has been the subject of 20 posts of mine in this thread. Self-authentication is fallacious circular reasoning - even when Christians do it.
Would you like to at last respond to my argument in a way that doesn't completely contradict everything you put forth at the outset?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Pauline, posted 08-25-2010 2:58 PM Pauline has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 141 of 142 (577872)
08-30-2010 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Pauline
08-25-2010 3:27 PM


Re: circular reasoning and evidence
So you expected me to 'prove' something?
Yes - that your argument was vaild.
Instead we proved that it was invalid. "Self-authentication" is fallacious circular reasoning - yes, even when Christians do it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Pauline, posted 08-25-2010 3:27 PM Pauline has not replied

  
shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 2849 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 142 of 142 (577917)
08-31-2010 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Pauline
07-28-2010 2:38 AM


premature self-authentication
52 you prematurely "self-authenticated" yourself.
that's no fun..
I am not talking about big names. I am talking about the average person who has little exposure to spirituality who seems to think the science has the answers to all our questions, thanks to falsehood spreading atheists. These people are lured into falsehood by vibrant atheists who pretend like science does indeed have all the answers we need to live. You do not realize how sad it is when atheists talk about God not existing simply because science seems to tell us He doesn't (so far). Why would science be given the luxury of answering a spiritual question unless the same people think it is some kind of higher authority?
OK here's some meat..
If you want to achieve some credibility for your views you cannot contradict known facts. If someone has the impression that Christianity means they have to believe in a 6 day creation and they know enough facts that contradict this how do you expect them to react?
If you appeal to a strained interpretation of the bible and call it authoritative in an attempt to make it all simple for yourself you are necessarily lost in a circular argument.
113 Oh yeah? What is the basis for faith then?
Since it involves your reaction to what you read in the bible it must be yourself..
or if you believe it is more than that, personal confirmation..
but you believe it because you believe it.
Own it..

If you want to be forgiven, learn to forgive, and eventually you may become generous enough to include yourself along with the rest of humanity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Pauline, posted 07-28-2010 2:38 AM Pauline has not replied

  
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