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Author Topic:   Has The Supernatural Hypothesis Failed?
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 9 of 549 (572524)
08-06-2010 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
08-06-2010 9:33 AM


Re: Has The Supernatural Hypothesis Failed?
Jumped Up Chimpanzee writes:
Is "supernatural" just a word meaning "something we don't understand at this time" and if we ever do understand it, then it becomes re-classified as "natural"?
Yes, that's precisely what happens.

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 Message 8 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 08-06-2010 9:33 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 85 of 549 (573190)
08-10-2010 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Straggler
08-10-2010 7:40 AM


Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes:
He has cited the myths and stories pertaining to gods as evidence of gods. jar says: I consider all Gods and gods to be evidenced. The evidence is the stories themselves
I am not sure what you find confusing about this. You yourself say that gods are cultural constructs. Where else do you expect to find the evidence for cultural constructs, other than in the myths, stories, etc that are told within the culture?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Straggler, posted 08-10-2010 7:40 AM Straggler has replied

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 Message 88 by Straggler, posted 08-10-2010 12:19 PM nwr has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 98 of 549 (573239)
08-10-2010 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Straggler
08-10-2010 12:19 PM


Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes:
The only thing I am "confused" by is jar's refusal to clearly state whether or not he considers these cultural constructs to be evidence of the supernatural.
If he happens to consider the supernatural to be a cultural construct, then that would not be an issue, either.
I am not saying that is jar's view - I don't read minds. But it is a possibility to consider when reading his posts.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 238 of 549 (580096)
09-07-2010 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Straggler
09-07-2010 1:51 PM


Re: So what does supernatural mean?
Golden Ratio writes:
First perhaps you can show me the physical detection of something a little less supernatural, say dark matter perhaps?
Straggler writes:
Well why do you think dark matter is even being postulated but for detectable physical effects?
It is being postulated as a possible way of explaining some otherwise unexplained observations. That does not mean that it has been detected.
In the past, science has postulated a luminiferous ether to account for observations. That was eventually abandoned. Before that, there was phlogiston.
I don't believe that there is anything within science that could be considered to be "the supernatural hypothesis." So I don't see that anything has failed.
Perhaps one could say that there is a supernatural hypothesis within religion. But in that case, it has surely been quite effective (from a religious point of view).

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 324 of 549 (583266)
09-25-2010 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by Straggler
09-25-2010 7:58 PM


Re: Confidence comes from comparison
Straggler writes:
POSITED SCENARIO
The universe was supernaturally created fully formed, including our memories, two nano-seconds ago. It was created in such a way that things will behave very differently from the universe we falsely think we experienced. Natural laws as we know them do not apply.
Then either we are already dead, or we soon will be.
If the world will behave in a very different way from the kind of world we are adapted to, then we won't last long. There's no point in worrying about pens.

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 Message 323 by Straggler, posted 09-25-2010 7:58 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Straggler, posted 09-29-2010 3:02 PM nwr has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 369 of 549 (583946)
09-29-2010 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by Straggler
09-29-2010 3:02 PM


Re: Confidence comes from comparison
Straggler writes:
Stop being evasive.
It seems to me that it is your post (i.e. Message 366) that is evasive.

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 Message 366 by Straggler, posted 09-29-2010 3:02 PM Straggler has replied

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 395 of 549 (584097)
09-30-2010 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 390 by Jon
09-29-2010 8:16 PM


Re: warm breeze
Jon writes:
Claims about the natural world are natural. Claims that do not involve the natural world are supernatural
So mathematics is supernatural! Who'd have thunk it?

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 Message 390 by Jon, posted 09-29-2010 8:16 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 403 by Jon, posted 09-30-2010 3:37 PM nwr has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 407 of 549 (584152)
09-30-2010 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 403 by Jon
09-30-2010 3:37 PM


Re: warm breeze
Jon writes:
Claims about the natural world are natural. Claims that do not involve the natural world are supernatural
nwr writes:
So mathematics is supernatural! Who'd have thunk it?
Jon writes:
Math, however, is a system of description; when it is used to describe things of the natural world, its claims are very much natural and thus subject to scientific investigation.
You are making excuses to try to evade the obvious fact that your earlier statement was silly.
Significant parts of our lives are spent with cultural constructs. Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, Little Red Riding Hood, Santa Claus, the tooth fairy - those are just a few examples. It makes no sense to say that they are supernatural. The idea of supernatural is itself a cultural construct. But not every cultural construct counts as supernatural.

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 Message 403 by Jon, posted 09-30-2010 3:37 PM Jon has replied

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 Message 412 by Jon, posted 09-30-2010 5:26 PM nwr has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 413 of 549 (584184)
09-30-2010 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by Jon
09-30-2010 5:26 PM


Re: warm breeze
Jon writes:
In what way do you consider the supernatural to be a cultural construct?
The only way people know about it, is via the culture. There is no natural source of evidence.
In my view, that makes it a cultural construct.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by Jon, posted 09-30-2010 5:26 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Jon, posted 09-30-2010 6:07 PM nwr has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 416 of 549 (584188)
09-30-2010 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Jon
09-30-2010 6:07 PM


Re: warm breeze
Jon writes:
If it's clear that Sherlock Holmes is simply a fictional story, is it proper to investigate on it using the scientific method and then draw conclusions on it based on whether or not the things it contains are evidenced?
There actually are groups that study Sherlock Holmes, though I would not call it a scientific study.
When I used "cultural constructs", I was not limiting myself to fiction. The games of golf, football, baseball, chess and many others are also cultural constructs. Sure, they also have a physical footprint, but there is a lot more involved in the games than the physical events.
I would guess that anthropologists and psychologists do have reasons to scientifically study some cultural constructs.

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 Message 414 by Jon, posted 09-30-2010 6:07 PM Jon has not replied

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