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Author Topic:   Has The Supernatural Hypothesis Failed?
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 177 of 549 (576575)
08-24-2010 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Blue Jay
08-24-2010 3:13 PM


Fisher.
Bluejay writes:
Your confidence in the human invention theory is based on the statistical methodology called hypothesis testing: evidence is gathered, and the probability that patterns in the evidence actually represent genuine deviations from a null model is calculated. -confidence can be quantified and expressed as a percentage (95% is the generally-accepted cut-off point).
You're ahead of RAZD, but I'll explain how I've done this.
You've read about the creation stories I've mentioned. Here's how to do a "Fisherian" statistical test on them in relation to my theory.
We take the bluegenes "they are human inventions/figments of our imagination" hypothesis as the null hypothesis. Then, if you want to use an alternative hypothesis, the most challenging is probably "one or more of them is true".
Then we take 100 of the stories, and examine each one in relation to our modern scientific knowledge in areas like cosmology, geology and biology.
The result, I can tell you, is that all the stories are demonstrably false, and the null hypothesis passes with 100% score on that particular test, indicating high confidence.
On your other point. There was nothing wrong with cell theory when it was first stated as universal. Its future could not be predicted, but it has no problem adapting to the few exceptions made.
It was based on good observations, and could afford to be brash.
My theory is the same. Speculating as to whether an adjusted version would arise if it were falsified in its present state is irrelevant at this point. It would become relevant when and if the existence of something that can be described as a supernatural being is verified beyond all reasonable doubt.
BTW, your alternative "humans invent gods" is a verifiable fact, and even if it weren't, couldn't be a scientific theory because it would be unfalsifiable (who could demonstrate that no human ever invented a god?).
Also, I must say, that you're demonstrating in a few posts a far more concise and comprehensible criticism of the theory than RAZD seems to manage in a book's worth of words, even though I disagree with you entirely!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Blue Jay, posted 08-24-2010 3:13 PM Blue Jay has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 399 of 549 (584117)
09-30-2010 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by Jon
09-30-2010 12:19 AM


Psychology, neurology, anthropology.
Jon writes:
if they do not deal with the natural world, they are not subject to scientific examination
That might possibly be the case if the claims were made by non-natural entities.
If they're made by humans, though, then see my sub-title.
We, and our claims and beliefs, are always subject to scientific examination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Jon, posted 09-30-2010 12:19 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by Jon, posted 09-30-2010 3:51 PM bluegenes has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 408 of 549 (584154)
09-30-2010 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by Jon
09-30-2010 3:51 PM


Re: Psychology, neurology, anthropology.
Jon writes:
I think it is clear that we are not talking about the physical entity that is the claim, but rather the content of the claim.
But that's really the point, Jon. With claims about the supernatural, unlike other claims, it has not yet been established that there's a real difference between the two.

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 Message 404 by Jon, posted 09-30-2010 3:51 PM Jon has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 507 of 549 (586528)
10-13-2010 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by Jon
10-13-2010 12:55 PM


Re: Backtracking
Jon writes:
What is the definition of 'supernatural'?
The reason you're confused is that Straggler is telling you that he does not consider supernatural beings to be imperceptible by definition.
You quote him in another post saying:
Straggler writes:
If the supernatural concept under consideration is immaterial and wholly empirically undetectable, how can it have originated as a human concept from anywhere other than the internal workings of the human mind?
Note the "If the supernatural concept under consideration" bit.
You seem to be taking this as meaning that "immaterial and wholly empirically undetectable" is part of his definition of all things supernatural, rather than the description of just one specific supernatural concept he's discussing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Jon, posted 10-13-2010 12:55 PM Jon has not replied

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