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Author Topic:   Has The Supernatural Hypothesis Failed?
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 22 of 549 (572568)
08-06-2010 3:28 PM


Defining terms
Discussions using the word ''supernatural'' will often amount to nothing if the definitions aren't agreed upon in the beginning. We can see it here in the exchange between JUC ans straggler where they obviously aren't using the same definition of 'supernatural'.
I have always tried to define supernatural along the lines of ''outside of nature''. Nature here being our multi-dimensional universe. An alternate definition would be ''everything that is not bound by the laws of nature''.
The christian God would therefore be supernatural according to this definition. Ohter universes in a possible multiverse would also become defined as supernatural, however. This could make some sense in the way that even if these other universes interacted with ours, not being bound by natural laws, this would appear like some kind of 'supernatural' interaction from our point of view.
This definition therefore also allows for interaction between supernatural and natural, without the former becoming the latter because of this. and this interaction will be detectable/observable, although not scientifically detectable because it cannot be repeated as a natural phenomenon could.

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Modulous, posted 08-06-2010 4:19 PM slevesque has not replied
 Message 25 by onifre, posted 08-06-2010 5:25 PM slevesque has replied
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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 27 of 549 (572611)
08-06-2010 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by onifre
08-06-2010 5:25 PM


Re: Defining terms
Agreed, but their own natural laws are unknowable to us, they are outside of our 4D universe which is the only place we can conduct scientific investigation.
As i said, any interaction by these universe into our own would appear from our point of view as ''supernatural''.
But it's debatable I agree, I draw the line with our universe because that is where we can do science. We cannot do science in those other universes. But I guess you could draw the line to include all the multiverse.

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 Message 25 by onifre, posted 08-06-2010 5:25 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 40 by onifre, posted 08-07-2010 11:03 AM slevesque has not replied

slevesque
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 29 of 549 (572619)
08-06-2010 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
08-06-2010 7:25 PM


Re: other dimensions
Cosmology deals with our universe.
Any study of the multiverses seems inherently different from modern science in that all you can do is extrapolating mathematical constructs. The scientific method and experimentation cannot be applied.
But as I said, it's simply a line drawn in the sand. The dictionnary definition given by Straggler is maybe more general, and would include God but exclude the multiverse.

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 Message 28 by jar, posted 08-06-2010 7:25 PM jar has replied

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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 34 of 549 (572631)
08-06-2010 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
08-06-2010 8:23 PM


Re: other dimensions
This may go off-topic then, but could you name these experiments ?

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 Message 30 by jar, posted 08-06-2010 8:23 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 36 of 549 (572644)
08-06-2010 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
08-06-2010 9:22 PM


Re: other dimensions
I'm just as layman as you in all this, but as I said, all we can do about other universes is extrapolate a mathematical construct. We can of course test this mathematical construct as it applies to our universe, but we cannot test those extrapolations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 08-06-2010 9:22 PM jar has replied

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