Separation of church and state

YES, I'M SERIOUS! IT WAS YOU WHO SAID, IN MESSGAE 191; I love this place!

Right.By people like you. Did you not get that when you read the Federalist Papers? That you are who the founders were most afraid of: ignorant, religious demagogues, clamoring for religious authoritarian rule? No, I think they represent objective, verifiable fact.

You are great with assertions, but absolutely terrible on evidence. How about trying to supply some evidence for these wild ass assertions.

---

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

That I couldn't find one opinion hardly means that I can't find many. Instead, my suspicion is that the opinion doesn't even exist. In any event, if the opinion doesn't appear any place other than in some rabblerousing book, it certainly can't be very important or influential, can it? Glad you've found a home. Here's hoping you stick around long enough to learn something, although I won't hold my breath.

---

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

​

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

​

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

​

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

I agree. The only place this "case" is mentioned is on fundy sites.I did find this

quote:

---

(Gierke v. Blotzer, CV-88-0-883 (U.S.D.C. Neb. 1989).

---

Does that look a real case number?Anyone have access to PACER? From what I understand all court cases are in PACER.Heck with it I will just register and search for the case.

---

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Nebraska only has the cases going back to 1991 in Pacer.

---

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Since this case does not seem to exist, I think we need to assume it does not until marc can provide actual evidence for it. It sure looks to be a fundie urban myth.

That citation is from US District Court. It's not a Nebraska state case.I don't know whether PACER gives access to opinions from 20 years ago, but a trip to just about any county law library would get you to the opinion in about 5 minutes, with a bit of help from the librarian.

---

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

​

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

​

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

​

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

I imagine that it exists. The question is whether it actually says what they claim it says.

---

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

It is. It's called the First Amendment. You know, the one that, amongst other things, separates Church and State?If you merely wish to quibble that that phrase is not in the Constitution, then I would point out that neither is the phrase "separation of powers". But the principle is.

May I take it that, as you are a religious conservative, you are using the term "special rights" to mean "exactly the same rights as heterosexuals already have"?If it costs money to grant people these rights (and you have neither provided evidence for this nor given the faintest hint as to why you think it might be true) then I would point out that homosexuals are a fairly small minority, and that you could save even more money by depriving heterosexuals of their rights.

quote:

---

Because in an issue of misunderstanding, there are two parties involved, and understandor, and an understandee. In this case, the understandor called foreign countries states, and expected me to know he was not referring to individual states in the US. He now has 2 or 3 helpers implying that his communicating skills are perfecto, and I’m fully to blame for misunderstanding him.

---

Believe it or not there are places in the world where that IS the usual meaning of "states". And since as we have established all the states of the U.S. are secular by law (1st plus 14th Amendments) your reading doesn't make much sense.I realise that "Christians" like you don't like to own up to your mistakes - we've got plenty of examples in this thread. But if it really upsets you to be wrong perhaps you should make more of an effort to get it right in the first place.

quote:

---

It’s promoted in science education. Naturalism, humanism, atheism, however it may be described, is considered the only guide for scientific studies, and has branched out to include virtually all modern thought in every field.

---

Translation: "Science has disproved the beliefs of my sect. Therefore we must be given special privileges."

quote:

---

That everything changes and is changeable. That humans are capable of knowing everything. This kind of thinking can lead to the kind of tyranny that the founders were most united against, that was clearly the most important thing for their government to prevent.

---

Translation: "If people are allowed to disagree with me, we'll end up with a tyranny ! SO obviously you must appoint me as tyrant !"

quote:

---

Scientific claims that life arose naturally from non-life from primordial soup billions of years ago, and that global warming is controllable by humans, are only two of many.

---

In fact science has not yet established how life first arose (although the smart money is on a natural origin on this planet). And it is certain that humans have contributed to global warming and can take steps to at least reduce their contribution. You're simply on the side of those who love money more than human life (what does the Bible say about the love of money ?)

Courts ARE a part of secular society, so in a sense that should be the only arbiter. People's religious views do play a part in how one views morality, but we shouldn't be using the bible as a template. I trust that you wouldn't appreciate living under Shari'a law, and I assume you wouldn't like living under the Halacha either.All you seem to care about is your own views on morality as being the absolute standard. What if the shoe was on the other foot, Marc? I don't think you would like it. But it is a part of the 1st Amendment. You seem hung up on one word, but the concept is incontrovertibly clear, especially when viewing other documents written by the Framers. I have posted the evidence as clear as day that refutes everything you've said. Curiously though, you've neglected to respond.You want to talk about revisionism, but how about the fact that the phrase "In God We Trust" on our coinage and c-notes was implemented in the 1950's, but the 1st Amendment, along with the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, along with Thomas Paine's book Common Sense, and a myriad of other personal memoirs make it painfully clear that the 1st Amendment was intended to be there from the beginning.

---

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

double postEdited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

---

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine