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Author Topic:   Why complex form requires an Intelligent Designer
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 81 of 165 (358357)
10-23-2006 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Taz
10-23-2006 3:48 PM


Re: On Design
gasby
As far as I know, no IDists (again, the real ones not the creo ones) have ever made a strong claim that the intelligent designer is one single almighty super being
Dubious claim but even playing devils advocate it reamins a fact that IDists do not define at all just what the intelligence actually is.

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 Message 75 by Taz, posted 10-23-2006 3:48 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Taz, posted 10-23-2006 6:49 PM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 102 of 165 (358447)
10-24-2006 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Taz
10-23-2006 6:49 PM


Re: On Design
gasby
While it is true that they haven't officially named the intelligent designer, they have most certainly tried to make it clear in court that more research had to be done before a reasonable answer could be given.
Intelligent design advocates claim that the complexity of the world is only explainable in terms of an "intelligence" doing the "design". However they ,when pressed , fail to apply the logic of their hypothesis to the assumed intellgence itself.
Since it can be reasonably assumed that the intelligence ,whatever that is, must needs be more complicated than that which it creates, the proponents fail to realize that the hypothesis must also apply to the complexity of the intelligent agent and we arrive at a logic loop that runs into the non terminating process known as ad infinitum.
The intelligent desiner ,being of greater complexity itself than that which it designs is subject to the terms of the hypothesis and we need follow up with the question of what created the complexity of this intelligent designer? And so on and so on... etc.
You're not helping debunking ID by demanding that the IDists know everything about everything.
I do not need to do that. The onus is on they who make the claim to support their contention for this. As I outlined above the hypothesis breaks itself{ complexity is only explainable through an intelligent agent} apart when we apply it to a premise{intelligent designer} that it makes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Taz, posted 10-23-2006 6:49 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Taz, posted 10-24-2006 9:49 AM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 140 of 165 (358683)
10-25-2006 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Taz
10-24-2006 9:49 AM


Re: On Design
gasby
IDists refuse to get into this logic loop because they don't claim that whatever this intelligence that they claim to be behind the "designs" of our world is an all powerful being.
My arguement does not need to know just what the intelligent designer is. It merely states that whatever the ID is it must be more complex than that which it designs. Since it is so complex the hypothesis applies to it and we form the question of what created that creator{ and so on...}
When a field is as young as ID (and I'm not referring to the amount of time it's been floating around), you can't demand the "experts" of that field to know everything about it. If you want to debunk it, work with what they've presented.
And I do not expect it from them. I do however expect them to declare that their arguement be universaly applicable.

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 Message 104 by Taz, posted 10-24-2006 9:49 AM Taz has not replied

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