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Author Topic:   Hypocrisy at funerals
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 1 of 58 (574961)
08-18-2010 3:27 PM


I attended a funeral for a childhood friend on Monday night. I haven't spoken to him in around 4 years and I haven't seen him in over 10. He was an on-again off-again christian and during the times he was "on-again", he was very open and forthcoming about his salvation: a very preachy individual.
He was a very troubled individual who spent most of his 20's in and out of prison (he died at 28). He was a drug addict who abused anything he could get his hands on. He could hardly keep a job and used a lot of friends, burning many bridges.
When I found out about the funeral, I was extremely hesitant because I knew it would be a religious cerimony in which the life of the deceased would not be celebrated, but instead would be a sermon. I was correct in assuming this.
Here is the reason for this topic:
1) The cause of death was suicide by hanging. He was scheduled for release next month. In light of this and the aforementioned life he led, the pastor and all attending still spoke of him in heaven and "being called on by god". Is this not hypocritical? Or is it ok to be a complete scumbag and kill yourself and still be all good in the eyes of your god?
2) Is it appropriate to use a service for a deceased person as your (the pastor) pulpit and to preach about your own supposed salvation? Is this a christian tradition?
I find it odd that through all he had done negatively in life and the fact that he committed suicide that they still decided to think of him as being in an allegedly wonderful place that heaven is purported to be. For me personally, it hammered home the reality that any thought of an afterlife is simply there as a consolation factor.

"A still more glorious dawn awaits
Not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise
A morning filled with 400 billion suns
The rising of the milky way"
-Carl Sagan

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 12:11 PM hooah212002 has replied
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Message 2 of 58 (575545)
08-20-2010 12:04 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Hypocrisy at funerals thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 58 (575546)
08-20-2010 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by hooah212002
08-18-2010 3:27 PM


For me personally, it hammered home the reality that any thought of an afterlife is simply there as a consolation factor.
Is there anything wrong with consoling the sorrowful?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by hooah212002, posted 08-18-2010 3:27 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 12:56 PM jar has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 4 of 58 (575552)
08-20-2010 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
08-20-2010 12:11 PM


No. Nor did I intend to imply there was. I was only saying that I feel as though that is what the belief stemmed from and hypocritical in light of the whole of religion and christian teachings. There are a multitude of other ways to console mourning individuals without fairytales.
As a feel good story, fine. But in light of the nature of this board and all of the "truth-i-ness" of god, heaven and jesus etc., that is where I draw the ire of hypocrisy. Had this been a board about religion in general, and the majority of the religious members were NOT to take the bible as a matter of fact, perhaps I wouldn't have brought the topic up, since run of the mill christians typically don't contemplate the factual-ness of heaven itself, but rather just think about it to feel good.
I hope I am making my point clear enough.

Your god believes in Unicorns

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 Message 3 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 12:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:18 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 58 (575556)
08-20-2010 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by hooah212002
08-20-2010 12:56 PM


If what they were saying is actually what they believe to be true, where is the hypocrisy?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 12:56 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 1:26 PM jar has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 6 of 58 (575557)
08-20-2010 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
08-20-2010 1:18 PM


From my first message:
I find it odd that through all he had done negatively in life and the fact that he committed suicide that they still decided to think of him as being in an allegedly wonderful place that heaven is purported to be.
ABE:
I suppose what it appears to me is that EVERYONE goes to heaven when it comes down to it, thus negating any necessity for doing any good or having any morals, which is what the christians (for the most part) claim to have: moral superiority. If there is no real fear of damnation, why the need for any salvation? Oh, to pretend to feel good about something, right?
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Your god believes in Unicorns

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 Message 5 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:18 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:29 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 58 (575558)
08-20-2010 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by hooah212002
08-20-2010 1:26 PM


Okay, and I certainly understand you feel that way but was it really hypocrisy?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 1:26 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 1:30 PM jar has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 8 of 58 (575560)
08-20-2010 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
08-20-2010 1:29 PM


see my edit

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:39 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 58 (575561)
08-20-2010 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by hooah212002
08-20-2010 1:30 PM


I suppose what it appears to me is that EVERYONE goes to heaven when it comes down to it, thus negating any necessity for doing any good or having any morals, which is what the christians (for the most part) claim to have: moral superiority. If there is no real fear of damnation, why the need for any salvation? Oh, to pretend to feel good about something, right?
Quite honestly no one has a clue who will be saved and who will not. In addition, people have the capacity to forgive even very great wrongs. Is it unreasonable to think a god might be at least as forgiving as humans? Even you seem to have cared enough about this person to have attended his funeral.
But still, where is the hypocrisy?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 1:30 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Huntard, posted 08-20-2010 1:47 PM jar has replied
 Message 11 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 1:49 PM jar has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 10 of 58 (575564)
08-20-2010 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
08-20-2010 1:39 PM


jar writes:
But still, where is the hypocrisy?
Would not the hypocrisy stem from the fact that all your life you are told to behave, else you will go to hell, and yet, whether you behaved or not, once you're dead, they automatically assume you went to heaven.
Say you're a baby raping cannibal, do these people really believe that even people like that go to heaven?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:55 PM Huntard has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 11 of 58 (575566)
08-20-2010 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
08-20-2010 1:39 PM


Christian: "Do "X" and you go to hell. Be a good person, go to heaven.
Oh, you're dead now? Na, you're in heaven anyways, no matter what kind of ass hat you were."
Is it unreasonable to think a god might be at least as forgiving as humans?
Oh, the same guy who supposedly punished all of humanity for one bitch eating an apple? Yea, that guy is real forgiving all right. We aren't talking about "a" god here. These people were christians, so they were not speaking of "a" god. They were talking about jesus himself and his daddy YHWH (if there is a difference).

Your god believes in Unicorns

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:56 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 12 of 58 (575568)
08-20-2010 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Huntard
08-20-2010 1:47 PM


Not really. I cannot guess what the person was taught but I still see no hypocrisy.
Not sure why a baby raping cannibal shouldn't go to heaven.
The point is, if they believe that the person is in heaven or even hope that the person was forgiven ad is in heaven, where is the hypocrisy?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Huntard, posted 08-20-2010 1:47 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Huntard, posted 08-20-2010 2:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 58 (575570)
08-20-2010 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by hooah212002
08-20-2010 1:49 PM


Oh, the same guy who supposedly punished all of humanity for one bitch eating an apple? Yea, that guy is real forgiving all right. We aren't talking about "a" god here. These people were christians, so they were not speaking of "a" god. They were talking about jesus himself and his daddy YHWH (if there is a difference).
Yes, I don't doubt that is what you believe but so far the only hypocrisy I find in the story is YOUR behavior.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 1:49 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 1:59 PM jar has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 14 of 58 (575572)
08-20-2010 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
08-20-2010 1:56 PM


so far the only hypocrisy I find in the story is YOUR behavior.
How so? How am I a hypocrite?
Don't tell me we have to define hypocrisy here because I don't know how much more clear I can make it.
Though perhaps I could see this as a matter that I personally think it is hypocritical....which is why I made the topic...... you don't have to agree, that's fine.

Your god believes in Unicorns

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 1:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 2:04 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 15 of 58 (575574)
08-20-2010 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
08-20-2010 1:55 PM


jar writes:
The point is, if they believe that the person is in heaven or even hope that the person was forgiven ad is in heaven, where is the hypocrisy?
Then the hypocrisy would take place when they tell you you should behave to go to heaven. What they should actually tell you is that it doesn't matter how you behave, you'll get to heaven anyway. Which is ironic, seeing as they always tell atheists that they're atheists because they don't want to be accountable to god and act however they want to. Well, if it doesn't matter how you behave, you're not accountable either, are you, and thus, you can behave however you want, right?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 2:06 PM Huntard has replied

  
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