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Author | Topic: Which animals would populate the earth if the ark was real? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
That's why nowadays no-one commits presnupation or hentery. I don't know what those things are, but I have noticed that there isn't much bestiality with Triceratops going on these days. Success!!Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Are you asking me to prove how Noah released the animals? I don't believe you are being asked any such thing. CS is saying that the exercise has no point because magic can be invoked at any time. Besides that, I think you've already made quite an impression with your 'knowledge' of animals. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What is illogical is to assume a boat full of animals cannot be discharged in such a manner that some survive. What is illogical is to assume a task is trivially easy when you know diddly squat about the details. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
But fish have nostrils and they have the breath of the spirit of life in them and they move on the earth. I think there is still room to argue the point. Fish do have nostrils, but the nostrils don't have the breath of life in them. Fish breathe without using their noses. I suspect that the writer of Genesis did not intend to include fish in this paragraph. It might not even have been apparent to the author that a flood would kill fish.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
1. God said "4 For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made. And you are sure that "the face of the earth" must include the earth? It cannot mean only things on earth's surface? I find your attempt to interpret the Bible literally, but then to say "I'm sure the writers meant to leave fish out" an impossible position to maintain. After all, whoever wrote the Bible also wrote the words attributed to God. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
God made everything so it's clear that it was god's intention to kill everything that he'd made. God also, according to the author, intended to restore life on the earth, yet there were no fish on the ark. The clear implication is that the fish were not going to be destroyed. It is fairly easy to read the words in Genesis in that way. As I see it, evil humans were God's target according to the story. Land animals and birds were collateral damage. Again, your own interpretation despite its arguably more literal nature, makes far less sense. Assuming, as I do, that the story is not true, the story as you interpret it requires not mere suspension of belief, which is excusable for fiction and myth, but outright inconsistency between motives and action, which I find inexcusable for fiction. Secondly your interpretation attributes the silliness to God, whereas I believe the correct place to attribute the silliness is to the authors of the story. The authors thought that fish would survive a global flood. Well they were wrong about that, but so what. They did not think God was an idiot. And the story isn't even true to boot.
But a straightforward reading of the story makes God's intentions very clear.... Your reading makes is not the only logical one. And your reading makes for a far sillier story. Perhaps for you that is part of its attraction. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
But it is not "story", rather at least two different stories all mushed together. Genesis 6 says: The issue Tangle describes would apply to both accounts. Genesis 6 also says this:
quote: Genesis 6:13 expresses a similar sentiment. Fish are surely flesh, so Tangle might argue that they too were going to be destroyed despite the fact that they were not included in the list in Genesis 6:7. Similarly, Genesis 7 does not avoid the issue. Your post suggests that 7:4 might be interpreted as Tangle suggests, that is with the death of all animals on land and at sea. Yet in the enumeration of which animals died in Genesis 7:21-23, (esp. 7:22), no sea creatures are named as dying.
quote: I'll also make what I think is a new argument for this thread, although we've hashed it out here before. The words earth and ground as used in these texts are probably synonymous. Most likely the authors did not view earth as a planet. So removing all animals from the face of the earth might likely meant terrestrial animals only. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Some then adapted to estuary and then fresh water conditions over hundreds of years after the flood. I think you've finally invoked magic. Can you present any evidence of fish adapting to fresh water conditions in mere hundreds of years?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
mindspawn writes: Its possible that the society changed from vegetarian to meat eaters, and thus the rules of what was clean and unclean changed after the flood. A few hundred years after the flood the emphasis was on what should or should not be eaten, which would obviously not have applied to a vegetarian society before the flood. Notice how your statement above progresses from speculation ("Its [sic] possible" ) to assertion ("thus...") within the span of a single sentence. What should I or anyone else make of such an argument? What criteria do you think determined clean/unclean prior to the flood, when no animals were being eaten? Were there more or fewer unclean animals pre-flood versus 100 years post flood? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The bible does not say. I have absolutely no idea, and so the possibilities are endless. Given that biblical wording points to a vegetarian society maybe predators were seen as less clean. But that is just guesswork and I wouldn't base a theory on guesswork. So what's your argument?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
God says he's going to kill everything on the face of the earth that he made. The sea animals were not on the face of the "earth" a term which applied to land only.
There is a partial list provided of things that were killed. The list is complete. There is no reason to take the list as being incomplete.
There is no similar list of things to be excluded. Not necessary if the list of dead things is complete.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
They claim a highstand (high water levels - ie flooding) rather You are missing the point. That's not a description of a world wide flood. Sea levels can rise without getting the water high enough to get over the tops of mountains as was described in Genesis. And you've already all but admitted the point in a prior message.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I think you've finally invoked magic. Can you present any evidence of fish adapting to fresh water conditions in mere hundreds of years? I said that saltwater fish could adapt to freshwater conditions in a few hundred years. There is no presented evidence that anything but a few sea water fish can tolerate freshwater.
I was expecting that selective breeding would produce such results, but fish directly exposed to large decreases in salinity have already shown a higher than expected tolerance. Some specific fish can tolerate ranges of salinity. Most species of salt fish would simply die if put in freshwater. Of course there would be no breeding after that. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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es I have admitted this. I cannot prove a total flood of biblical proportions, but there is enough evidence of worldwide flooding to contradict the loose claim that a worldwide flood has been disproven by geology. There is zero evidence of a world wide flood at any time since the age of men began. You haven't even demonstrated that there was a world wide flood at the P-T boundary. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I really don't know to if, when, or to what extent God intervened in natural processes. I believe observed geology conforms with what happened. You don't know if God intervened? So you don't know whether the following statement was made by God?
quote: Or this one:
quote: You practice a strange version of Bible inerrancy. The difference between what the Bible states and what you believe certainly dwarfs any of the differences Tangle and I have discussed in what Genesis literally says.
I believe observed geology conforms with what happened. So does everyone else in this thread.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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