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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
PaulK 
Suspended Member
Posts: 10707
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 586 of 657 (617961)
05-31-2011 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 582 by Buzsaw
05-31-2011 10:47 AM


Re: Re:Height Perspective.
quote:

According to the Biblical record, that would be the mountain.

The "Biblical record" makes no mention of animal carvings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 582 by Buzsaw, posted 05-31-2011 10:47 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 587 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 6:06 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 24595
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 587 of 657 (617966)
05-31-2011 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 586 by PaulK
05-31-2011 6:00 PM


Re: Re:Height Perspective.
PaulK writes:

quote:

According to the Biblical record, that would be the mountain.

The "Biblical record" makes no mention of animal carvings.

And there is not even one drawing of a "calf" which the Bible does mention on the rock in question.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by PaulK, posted 05-31-2011 6:00 PM PaulK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 596 by Malcolm, posted 05-31-2011 8:08 PM jar has responded

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1547
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 588 of 657 (617972)
05-31-2011 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 576 by Buzsaw
05-30-2011 10:29 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
What is the Lat and Long of the mountain?


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 576 by Buzsaw, posted 05-30-2011 10:29 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 589 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 6:39 PM DrJones* has responded

fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 520 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


(1)
Message 589 of 657 (617975)
05-31-2011 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 588 by DrJones*
05-31-2011 6:29 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
28deg 39' 14.69" N by 35deg 18" 16.04" E , there is also another place-mark for Sinai/ Jabal al-Lawz 3.76 kilometers north, but I feel the one he refers too is the one I gave coordinates for, looks right, darker top and all.

If you use Google earth and cut on mountains layer, and community layers you can find at least 3 in the area that are all labeled as being Sinai.

Don't get me wrong, I dont support this line of thought, but I figured I might put the area in question out there so it will be easier to find.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 588 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2011 6:29 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 590 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2011 6:46 PM fearandloathing has responded
 Message 593 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 6:59 PM fearandloathing has responded
 Message 598 by Percy, posted 05-31-2011 8:44 PM fearandloathing has responded
 Message 608 by Buzsaw, posted 05-31-2011 10:10 PM fearandloathing has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1547
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 590 of 657 (617977)
05-31-2011 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 589 by fearandloathing
05-31-2011 6:39 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
so if that is the the location of the mountain. Then it shouldn't be hard to find a topographical map of the region and check if it is indeed the tallest mountain in the area as Buz claims


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 6:39 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 591 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 6:52 PM DrJones* has responded

fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 520 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 591 of 657 (617979)
05-31-2011 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 590 by DrJones*
05-31-2011 6:46 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
It is over 8200 ft?? not sure if it the highest, but it is the highest of the 3 I looked into that claim to be it, Google earth also has this feature at the bottom, along with co-ordinate system, not sure how reliable it is, just have the cursor over the area in question and it will give you the altitude or depth if you are over water. It is a toolbar option I think.

Just trying to be helpful if you haven't used GE. Unfortunately it is not high res image.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2011 6:46 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 592 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2011 6:55 PM fearandloathing has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1547
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 592 of 657 (617980)
05-31-2011 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 591 by fearandloathing
05-31-2011 6:52 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Just trying to be helpful if you haven't used GE.

No worries, I have no intention of doing Buz's homework for him. Just trying to point out something simple that he could do to actually back up a small part of his assertions.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 591 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 6:52 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 594 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 7:01 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 24595
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 593 of 657 (617981)
05-31-2011 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 589 by fearandloathing
05-31-2011 6:39 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
The problem is that that is located on the Sinai Peninsula and so nowhere near the site Buz is marketing.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 6:39 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 595 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 7:04 PM jar has not yet responded

fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 520 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 594 of 657 (617982)
05-31-2011 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 592 by DrJones*
05-31-2011 6:55 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
DrJones* writes:

Just trying to be helpful if you haven't used GE.

No worries, I have no intention of doing Buz's homework for him. Just trying to point out something simple that he could do to actually back up a small part of his assertions.

I seen Wyatts theory presented on TV, nat geo maybe, and looked into then, as I was discussing it on another forum.

I could be completely wrong about this location, if so Buzz can set me straight, I am only guessing this is the area he refers to.


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 592 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2011 6:55 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 520 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 595 of 657 (617983)
05-31-2011 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 593 by jar
05-31-2011 6:59 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
No it is in Saudi Arabia, unless I mooked up the coordinates, Degree, minute, second. I will check, thanks.

Unless google earth is wrong, it is in SA. Maybe you are using a different coordinate system?

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 593 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 6:59 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Malcolm
Member
Posts: 147
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 596 of 657 (617990)
05-31-2011 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 587 by jar
05-31-2011 6:06 PM


Re: Re:Height Perspective.
I found this article looking at the issues of Jebel al Lawz being identified as Mount Sinai. Haven't read the whole article, but in regards to the petroglyphs it points out that, far from being a single occurence, these petroglyphs can be found throughout the region. There is fifty in this region alone, and about 300 such sites throughout north west saudi arabia. The carvings date to the neolithic making them much older than the purported date of the exodus. It also brings up a question. If Moses destroyed the golden calf since it was an idol, as described in the bible, why do these petroglyphs still exist if they are also graven images?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 6:06 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 597 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 8:14 PM Malcolm has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 24595
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 597 of 657 (617992)
05-31-2011 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 596 by Malcolm
05-31-2011 8:08 PM


Re: Re:Height Perspective.
Yup, pretty common across the region and all of North Africa as well, far older than the 1200s BCE, no calves on the rock, the images Wyatt used were doctored (pre photoshop), mostly hunting and fertility symbols and also things like dogs, camels, phallic symbols, no sign of ever being used as an altar.

In all, no evidence in support of the Exodus at all.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 596 by Malcolm, posted 05-31-2011 8:08 PM Malcolm has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 13032
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 598 of 657 (617994)
05-31-2011 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 589 by fearandloathing
05-31-2011 6:39 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
If I did the math right, here's the Google satellite map for those coordinates:


View Larger Map

This looks an even less likely candidate than the other one, appears to be lower, flatter, less rugged.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 6:39 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 599 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 8:58 PM Percy has responded

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 520 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 599 of 657 (617998)
05-31-2011 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 598 by Percy
05-31-2011 8:44 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Maybe?? It is over 8200 feet, one of the highest around, far as I can tell. I am only guessing what Buzz means, I should stop now.
I base these guesses on discussing this same line of thought on, Wyatt's theory, with someone else.

Also, others should know that the red balloon in your map is not the coordinates, they need too zoom out and look at the green arrow, not that it really matters, I was only trying to move this topic to its logical conclusion. I know all I need to know to think it is not a sound theory JMO.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 598 by Percy, posted 05-31-2011 8:44 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 600 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 9:05 PM fearandloathing has responded
 Message 602 by Percy, posted 05-31-2011 9:33 PM fearandloathing has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 24595
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 600 of 657 (618001)
05-31-2011 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 599 by fearandloathing
05-31-2011 8:58 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
On mountains in Saudi Arabia.

Name, elevation, latitude/longitude

1 Jabal Sawdā, 2,995 m 18.268 / 42.37
2 Jabal Dakah, Makkah 2,585 m 21.094 / 40.293
3 Jabal Qarnayţ, Makkah 2,495 m 21.041 / 40.368
4 Qamat Abū ash Shaykh, 2,328 m 17.587 / 43.572
5 Jabal Raḑw, Al Madīnah 2,210 m 24.59 / 38.281
6 Jabal Idqis, Al Madīnah 2,160 m 23.576 / 39.495
7 Jabal Shadā Āl Zahrān, 2,005 m 19.846 / 41.32
8 Jabal Suwayqah, Makkah 2,004 m 21.347 / 40.376
9 Jabal Shaybān, 1,967 m 19.234 / 41.997
10 Jabal Mazḩafah, Tabūk 1,897 m 28.843 / 34.966

From Geo Names


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 599 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 8:58 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 601 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 9:14 PM jar has acknowledged this reply
 Message 606 by Percy, posted 05-31-2011 9:46 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

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