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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 1755 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 601 of 657 (618003)
05-31-2011 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 600 by jar
05-31-2011 9:05 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
As I said, Far as I can tell, I am by no means saying I am right, I have only looked on GE. It is a moot point anyway, Wyatt is wrong. JMO

I guess I was only putting out evidence, or claims of, I had encountered before, not that Buzz would agree with my location. I dont know?.

I should've probably never said a thing.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 9:05 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16293
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 602 of 657 (618006)
05-31-2011 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 599 by fearandloathing
05-31-2011 8:58 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Google must have a bug in the embedded maps now. I tried to fix it so it's centered properly by going back to Google Maps and getting the embedded text again, but it just does the same thing.

Where are you finding the elevation information? What I said was based on just inspecting the satellite image. If you look at it there doesn't appear to be a mountain there, and pretty much dead center is what looks like a wash, i.e., low lying area where sediment/sand gathers.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 599 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 8:58 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 603 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 9:38 PM Percy has responded
 Message 604 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 9:38 PM Percy has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29747
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 603 of 657 (618007)
05-31-2011 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 602 by Percy
05-31-2011 9:33 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Percy, if you go to N 28.843 E 34.966 in Google Earth it will display the elevations at the bottom of the page. Just be careful as there are two elevations shown, one is the ground elevation, the other is 'eye' elevation, the height you are viewing it from.

AbE:

But also note that it is not the highest in Saudi Arabia by a long shot, in fact it is tenth highest.

See Message 600.

Edited by jar, : add link back to table of heights.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by Percy, posted 05-31-2011 9:33 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 612 by Buzsaw, posted 05-31-2011 10:44 PM jar has responded
 Message 614 by Percy, posted 06-01-2011 8:17 AM jar has responded

fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 1755 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 604 of 657 (618008)
05-31-2011 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 602 by Percy
05-31-2011 9:33 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Google Earth, as i have said i dont know how accurate it is, it is spot on with my GPS at my location.

One of features of Google earth is depth/elevation. It is the status bar selection in the view menu. If your status bar is on it will show you elevation + or - above/below sea level, at the bottom of screen.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by Percy, posted 05-31-2011 9:33 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 616 by Percy, posted 06-01-2011 8:23 AM fearandloathing has acknowledged this reply

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 605 of 657 (618011)
05-31-2011 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 585 by Admin
05-31-2011 5:01 PM


Re: Re:Height Perspective.
Admin writes:

Hi Buz,

Let's be very clear about your evidence.

You believe that if one could enter that region of Saudi Arabia that Mount Sinai would be identifiable because it is the highest mountain, it has a blackened top unlike other mountains in the region, and it has animal carvings at its base unlike other mountains in the region.

But you have no material evidence that such a mountain exists in this region of Saudi Arabia.

If you agree that this summary is accurate then you're free to move on to the issues of other evidence.

If you disagree with this summary then please provide your material evidence.

I've reiterated that other mountains in the region have blackened tops and that what is significant is that there is indeed a blackened top mountain in the successive row of evidences. From the satellite view, in the row of dark top hills or mountains, one seemed to be a little darker than others but it should be the highest one. It is unusual for mountain tops to be black, unless they are volcanic, whether one or a row of them. No? It is enough to satisfy the record, given the more significant corroborated evidences. It's name is Jabal al Lawz.

Remember, Percy, it was you who said, "evidence must be judged in context with other evidence, and it is this complex confluence and interaction of evidence that we assess."

I see this as indirect evidence of sorts rather than direct evidence. Can't you please show a little espect and just be Percy in this thread debating me as with every other member?


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 585 by Admin, posted 05-31-2011 5:01 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 607 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2011 10:08 PM Buzsaw has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 16293
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 606 of 657 (618012)
05-31-2011 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 600 by jar
05-31-2011 9:05 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Using the map in my earlier post and scrolling out and finding the green arrow, then zooming in on the green arrow, then clicking on "ter" for terrain, the green arrow is dead center on what Google Maps labels Jebel al Lawz, and it appears to be at approximately the same location as your #10 Jabal Mazḩafah.

But though it's only the 10th highest mountain in Saudi Arabia, it does appear to be the highest mountain in that region. At 6190 feet or 1897 meters, it's almost 2000 feet less than Fearandloathing's number, but it's still the highest mountain in the region.

Definitely no sign of a blackened top (though if I squinted I could definitely make out the drawing of the calf ).

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 9:05 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 609 by Buzsaw, posted 05-31-2011 10:28 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1683
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 607 of 657 (618016)
05-31-2011 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 605 by Buzsaw
05-31-2011 9:44 PM


Re: Re:Height Perspective.
It is unusual for mountain tops to be black

Why is unusual for mountain tops to be black? especially given that you've already admitted that there are other mountains in the area that have black tops.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 605 by Buzsaw, posted 05-31-2011 9:44 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 610 by Buzsaw, posted 05-31-2011 10:39 PM DrJones* has responded

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 608 of 657 (618018)
05-31-2011 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 589 by fearandloathing
05-31-2011 6:39 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
fearandloathing writes:

28deg 39' 14.69" N by 35deg 18" 16.04" E , there is also another place-mark for Sinai/ Jabal al-Lawz 3.76 kilometers north, but I feel the one he refers too is the one I gave coordinates for, looks right, darker top and all.

If you use Google earth and cut on mountains layer, and community layers you can find at least 3 in the area that are all labeled as being Sinai.

Don't get me wrong, I dont support this line of thought, but I figured I might put the area in question out there so it will be easier to find.

Thanks very much, Fear.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by fearandloathing, posted 05-31-2011 6:39 PM fearandloathing has not yet responded

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 609 of 657 (618019)
05-31-2011 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 606 by Percy
05-31-2011 9:46 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Percy writes:

Using the map in my earlier post and scrolling out and finding the green arrow, then zooming in on the green arrow, then clicking on "ter" for terrain, the green arrow is dead center on what Google Maps labels Jebel al Lawz, and it appears to be at approximately the same location as your #10 Jabal Mazḩafah.

But though it's only the 10th highest mountain in Saudi Arabia, it does appear to be the highest mountain in that region. At 6190 feet or 1897 meters, it's almost 2000 feet less than Fearandloathing's number, but it's still the highest mountain in the region.

Definitely no sign of a blackened top (though if I squinted I could definitely make out the drawing of the calf ).

--Percy

More relative than height is location being in the right area to be supportive to the other corroborating evidences. It should be the highest mount in that immediate region. That would make it more supportive than if it were not, I would assume.

Perhaps Fearandloating will explain the height descrepancy for Jabal al Lawz.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Percy, posted 05-31-2011 9:46 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 610 of 657 (618020)
05-31-2011 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 607 by DrJones*
05-31-2011 10:08 PM


Re: Re:Height Perspective.
DrJones* writes:

It is unusual for mountain tops to be black

Why is unusual for mountain tops to be black? especially given that you've already admitted that there are other mountains in the area that have black tops.

I suppose if one could view all of the mountains in Saudi Arabia, most would not have dark tops. The Genesis record does not mandate the mountain to look black, how massive the fire was or whether the fire spread to the lesser mountains in the range of mountains, especially after thousands of years.

Edited by Buzsaw, : eliminate word


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2011 10:08 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 611 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2011 10:44 PM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1683
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


(1)
Message 611 of 657 (618021)
05-31-2011 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 610 by Buzsaw
05-31-2011 10:39 PM


Re: Re:Height Perspective.
The Genesis record does not mandate the mountain to look black, how massive the fire was or whether the fire spread to the lesser mountains in the range of mountains, especially after thousands of years.

So the allegedly blackened mountain top isn't actually relelvant to your claims?


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 610 by Buzsaw, posted 05-31-2011 10:39 PM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by NoNukes, posted 06-03-2011 8:12 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 612 of 657 (618022)
05-31-2011 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 603 by jar
05-31-2011 9:38 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
jar writes:


But also note that it is not the highest in Saudi Arabia by a long shot, in fact it is tenth highest.

Why should it need be the highest to be supportive?


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 603 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 9:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 613 by Percy, posted 06-01-2011 7:48 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 615 by jar, posted 06-01-2011 8:18 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 16293
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 613 of 657 (618060)
06-01-2011 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 612 by Buzsaw
05-31-2011 10:44 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Buzsaw writes:

Why should it need be the highest to be supportive?

I think it's fine that it's the highest in that region, but there's no black top in evidence.

If this is the same mountain that Wyatt identified, how would you test the hypothesis that Wyatt simply looked at a topographical map of the region and picked out the highest one.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 612 by Buzsaw, posted 05-31-2011 10:44 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 619 by Buzsaw, posted 06-01-2011 9:27 AM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16293
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 614 of 657 (618065)
06-01-2011 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 603 by jar
05-31-2011 9:38 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Let me attempt a map again, this time after updating Chrome and using Google Earth instead:


View Larger Map

There, that's better. Ignoring the parts that are obviously shadows, it does appear darker at the top, as do all the other nearby mountains. Looks geological in origin, the geologic layers of mountains at higher elevations being remnants of the same ancient terrain.

I'm not seeing elevations in either Google Maps or Google Earth, can you step me through what you're doing?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 603 by jar, posted 05-31-2011 9:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 617 by jar, posted 06-01-2011 8:44 AM Percy has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29747
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 615 of 657 (618066)
06-01-2011 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 612 by Buzsaw
05-31-2011 10:44 PM


Re: Mt Sinai
Buz, I am simply testing the claims you have made.

So far I see NO supportive evidence of an Exodus ever happening.

The mountain you and Wyatt have picked out shows no signs of being burned, no blackened top, little to make it any different than any other.

The rock does not have a single calf on it and no indication it was ever an altar.

There is no evidence the rock is even near the mountain.

And all you do is continue to make stuff up and stick it in the story.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 612 by Buzsaw, posted 05-31-2011 10:44 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

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