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Author Topic:   What is Life?
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11540
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 181 of 268 (598212)
12-29-2010 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 4:30 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
What is the simplest life form?

When?

Today, it'd be either a virus (assuming they're included) or, if not, a prokaryote.

You can read all about them here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokaryote

If you're talkin' "of all time", then its less clear, but I'd guess either a nanobacterium or a protobiont.

You can read about those heres:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanobacteria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protobiont

Happy learning!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 4:30 PM Philip Johnson has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:06 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 182 of 268 (598215)
12-29-2010 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by New Cat's Eye
12-29-2010 4:52 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
Since the common idea is that all life evolved from one common ancestor, why are there still some life forms that "have not evolved very far?" You can read posts on this forum where people sound like they believe some life forms are "more evolved" than others, whereas every life form has actually been evolving for the same amount of time.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-29-2010 4:52 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 5:09 PM Philip Johnson has responded
 Message 207 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-30-2010 10:34 AM Philip Johnson has responded
 Message 208 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-30-2010 10:55 AM Philip Johnson has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29138
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 183 of 268 (598216)
12-29-2010 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 5:06 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
Huh?

What makes you think some are less evolved?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:06 PM Philip Johnson has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:13 PM jar has responded

  
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 184 of 268 (598219)
12-29-2010 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by jar
12-29-2010 5:09 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
Why are there still single cell organisms? Why haven't they evolved into more complex organisms?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 5:09 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Coragyps, posted 12-29-2010 5:17 PM Philip Johnson has not yet responded
 Message 186 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 5:18 PM Philip Johnson has responded
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 Message 205 by ringo, posted 12-30-2010 10:16 AM Philip Johnson has not yet responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5273
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 185 of 268 (598221)
12-29-2010 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 5:13 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
Why are there still single cell organisms? Why haven't they evolved into more complex organisms?

Why are there still Irishmen?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:13 PM Philip Johnson has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29138
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 186 of 268 (598222)
12-29-2010 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 5:13 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
LOL

Why would they?

If they are successful, live long enough to reproduce, why would they evolve? What is the filter that would drive change?

Do you really think evolution means directionality or something becoming more complex?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:13 PM Philip Johnson has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:39 PM jar has responded

  
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 187 of 268 (598225)
12-29-2010 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by jar
12-29-2010 5:18 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
True. If evolution is survival of the fitest (which requires you to reproduce more than others) then we should expect all life forms to evolve to smaller life forms that reproduce quicker. The evolution tree would be upside down. We should all end up bacteria (which currently makes up 80% of all living things).
This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 5:18 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Larni, posted 12-29-2010 5:53 PM Philip Johnson has responded
 Message 191 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 6:13 PM Philip Johnson has responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3943
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 188 of 268 (598228)
12-29-2010 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 5:39 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
True. If evolution is survival of the fitest (which requires you to reproduce more than others) then we should expect all life forms to evolve to smaller life forms that reproduce quicker. The evolution tree would be upside down. We should all end up bacteria (which currently makes up 80% of all living things).

Quite wrong. Humans have a long life expectancy as a result of being very good at investing resources in their offspring. Multiple cooperating generations are very good at looking after babies.

What you are saying (whether or not you understand it or not is difficult to discern) is that the fitness of a specie is purely a function of an r strategy (as opposed to a K strategy).

This is not true.

Now, I learnt that interesting fact doing my A levels so I can only conclude that your knowledge of biology stops at GCSE level.

I look forwards to you further contribution in this science thread, with baited breath.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:39 PM Philip Johnson has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 6:04 PM Larni has responded

    
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 189 of 268 (598231)
12-29-2010 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Larni
12-29-2010 5:53 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
"Humans have a long life expectancy as a result of being very good at investing resources in their offspring."

Actually, humans are not "very good" at evolution. There are currently 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 bacteria living on earth (perhaps 80% of all living things) and only about 7,000,000,000 humans living on earth. And I predict that the percentage of bacteria will increase whereas the percentage of humans will decrease. Do you predict the opposite?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Larni, posted 12-29-2010 5:53 PM Larni has responded

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Larni
Member
Posts: 3943
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 190 of 268 (598233)
12-29-2010 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 6:04 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
And I predict that the percentage of bacteria will increase whereas the percentage of humans will decrease. Do you predict the opposite?

Evolution is not something you need to be good at.

Look at sharks: they got to a point where they cope with selection pressures remarkably well and became very bad at evolving.

Things evolve when there is a selection pressure: no selection pressure and evolution slows to a crawl.

What you seem to be saying is that numbers of organism equals being better at evolution: as I hope you can see now, this is not the case.

Do you predict the opposite?

Who can say? But if your point is that for some reasons humans will die off in the next couple of years I see no evidence to support that assertion.

What evidence can you bring to the table?

I smell a game of 'gotcha' here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 6:04 PM Philip Johnson has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29138
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 191 of 268 (598234)
12-29-2010 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 5:39 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
Sorry but it seems you really have no idea what Evolution is.

True. If evolution is survival of the fitest (which requires you to reproduce more than others) then we should expect all life forms to evolve to smaller life forms that reproduce quicker. The evolution tree would be upside down. We should all end up bacteria (which currently makes up 80% of all living things).
True. If evolution is survival of the fitest (which requires you to reproduce more than others) then we should expect all life forms to evolve to smaller life forms that reproduce quicker. The evolution tree would be upside down. We should all end up bacteria (which currently makes up 80% of all living things).

There is absolutely nothing in that post that is correct or anything more than a typical creationist misrepresentation.

First, evolution is simply change over time.

Second, it is NOT directed.

Third there is no directionality.

Fourth, what we see is simply what has succeeded.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:39 PM Philip Johnson has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 6:22 PM jar has responded
 Message 197 by GDR, posted 12-29-2010 6:48 PM jar has responded

  
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 192 of 268 (598240)
12-29-2010 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by jar
12-29-2010 6:13 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
"First, evolution is simply change over time."

Evolution is not "change over time" but "change by mutation" via Natural Selection.

Natural selection is the process by which genetic mutations that enhance reproduction become, and remain, more common in successive generations of a population.

We should have expected that simple organisms alive today should have experienced some mutations to change and not remained the same for so long.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 6:13 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 6:26 PM Philip Johnson has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29138
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 193 of 268 (598243)
12-29-2010 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 6:22 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
"First, evolution is simply change over time."

Evolution is not "change over time" but "change by mutation" via Natural Selection.

Natural selection is the process by which genetic mutations that enhance reproduction become, and remain, more common in successive generations of a population.

We should have expected that simple organisms alive today should have experienced some mutations to change and not remained the same for so long.

No.

You are confusing the fact of Evolution which is simply change over time, with the Theory of Evolution that explains how it happens.

Nor is there any evidence that anything has remained the same over time.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 6:22 PM Philip Johnson has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 6:30 PM jar has responded

  
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 194 of 268 (598247)
12-29-2010 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by jar
12-29-2010 6:26 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
Granted, I assumed that the phrase "evolution" on this forum would mean "the theory of evolution".

I will restate it...

If the theory of evolution is correct, we should have expected that simple organisms alive today should have experienced some mutations to change and not remained the same for so long. 80% of all living things are still single cell organisms.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 6:26 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 6:32 PM Philip Johnson has not yet responded
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jar
Member
Posts: 29138
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 195 of 268 (598249)
12-29-2010 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 6:30 PM


Re: What is the simplest life form?
LOL

But those single cell critters are NOT the same single cell critters from billions of years ago.

Remember there are two factors, change and the filter. If something passes through the filter it continues.

It really is that simple.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 6:30 PM Philip Johnson has not yet responded

  
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