EvC Forum: Is there any proof of beneficial mutations?

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Topic: Is there any proof of beneficial mutations?

ICANT

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Message 69 of 166 (580123)
09-07-2010 8:42 PM

Reply to: Message 63 by dennis780
09-07-2010 8:14 AM

Re: Cause of mutation?

Hi dennis,

dennis780 writes:

I perfect example of this is penicillin. After it was brought to market in the 1990's, over 80% of strains of Staphylococcus aureus were resistant.

Penicillin was first used in 1871 but was not mass produced until just before the invasion of Normandy. It was great for colds in the 50's.

So bacteria had 40 years to raise immunities before the ninties.

Now where those immunities came from is another question.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 63 by dennis780, posted 09-07-2010 8:14 AM		dennis780 has not replied

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ICANT

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Message 71 of 166 (580142)
09-07-2010 10:10 PM

Reply to: Message 70 by jar
09-07-2010 8:43 PM

Re: Cause of mutation?

Hi jar,

jar writes:

Not really. It came from mutations.

Well that is not what the experiments show.

Experiments show that if you take a couple of plates and spread out bacteria on them and let them grow into several different colonies .

Then stamp the original plates with cloths and stamp two new plates that contains the antibiotic penicillin.

Many of the bacteria will die.

Many will survive.

Those that survive already have an immunity to the penicilin. They did not create a mutation that produced the immunity.

The immunity was already in their DNA.

So my statement where did those immunities come from.

Evolutionist says they had acquired a mutation prior to being exposed.

I say the DNA information contained the immunities when they were created.

I read somewhere there was bacteria cultures from frozen bodies that were resistant to antibotics that were developed 100 years later.

Why did these immunities have to be produced by a mutation?

Why couldn't those that died have had a deletious mutation that removed their immunity to the anibotic?

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 70 by jar, posted 09-07-2010 8:43 PM		jar has replied

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	Message 72 by jar, posted 09-07-2010 10:15 PM	ICANT has not replied
	Message 73 by crashfrog, posted 09-07-2010 10:22 PM	ICANT has replied
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ICANT

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Message 74 of 166 (580147)
09-07-2010 10:36 PM

Reply to: Message 73 by crashfrog
09-07-2010 10:22 PM

Re: Cause of mutation?

Hi crash,

crashfrog writes:

Because the founder was not resistant, we know that the resistance (and not the loss of resistance) was the trait acquired by mutation.

How do you know the trait was acquired rather than lost?

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 73 by crashfrog, posted 09-07-2010 10:22 PM		crashfrog has replied

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	Message 76 by crashfrog, posted 09-07-2010 10:46 PM		ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 77 of 166 (580156)
09-07-2010 11:31 PM

Reply to: Message 76 by crashfrog
09-07-2010 10:46 PM

Re: Cause of mutation?

Hi crash,

crashfrog writes:

I told you, already. If the trait had been present in the founder individual than all colonies would have survived; any particular mutation is highly unlikely so only a small - not even noticeable - number of bacteria would have lost the trait and been killed by the antibiotic.

Half of the colonies could not have lost their immunity.

But half of the colonies could have mutated to the point they were immune.

That does not compute.

crashfrog writes:

Because antibiotic resistance was not initially widespread we know that it was the acquired trait, rather than the reverse as you propose. Because the bacteria were clonal and the species is haploid we know the source was mutation. And we know that mutation is random.

That is a contradictatory statement.

"Because antibotic resistance was not initially widespread."

So it did exist just everybody did not have resistance.

Then you follow with, "we know that it was the acquired trait".

So you are saying it was an acquired trait because everybody initally did not have the trait.

That don't compute either.

What does compute is that some bacteria received the trait from their parents and others did not receive the trait for some reason and they died.

Now your statement, "was not initially widespread" proves my point thanks.

The information was in the DNA.

God Bless,

Here you admit antibotic restance existed.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 76 by crashfrog, posted 09-07-2010 10:46 PM		crashfrog has replied

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ICANT

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Message 80 of 166 (580168)
09-08-2010 12:32 AM

Reply to: Message 79 by crashfrog
09-07-2010 11:56 PM

Re: Cause of mutation?

Message 10 Moved to

Edited by ICANT, : Moved message

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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