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Author Topic:   Can You define God?
Phat
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Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 29 of 303 (659464)
04-16-2012 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by 2ndReign
10-03-2010 1:24 AM


Presuppositions for the sake of discussion
Crashfrog writes:

The greatest fault with religion/theology is that it doesn't even bother to establish the existence of the thing it claims to study, it just skips ahead to presuming the qualities of that entity. I think the conversation should remain at the level of "does God exist or not" until that issue is settled.

The issue is settled based on ones individual beliefs. What makes you think that a human could establish the existence of God? We simply do not have that power. God either exists or He(She,It) doesn't...irregardless of our attempts to define such a concept or the absence thereof. Since we don't know either way, the premise of a topic such as this one is that God does exist. Go ahead, make one up if you cant conceive of It. Then you can join the conversation.

Personally, I would like to believe that God exists, that God is alone the only entity that has the knowledge of the universe (or multi-verses) at His disposal, or in His database or whatever. Of course I believe that good is more powerful than evil and that God is good.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 44 of 303 (660230)
04-22-2012 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by frako
04-22-2012 12:12 PM


Re: Defining God
quote:
...i dint mention it but since you bring it up what is wrong with worshipping Satan as the one and only god.
Some say that humans tend to worship their own collective and individual intellect as the one true god, though they don't consciously see it as an act of worship but, rather, as a celebration of independence and destiny.

In my belief, God has chosen to have a relationship of sorts with me and with any other human so willing to accept a logically foolish premise.

Why College Students Are Losing Their Religion

I will admit to a bias favoring the existence of God. What many of my critics wont admit is a bias against any possibility of His/Her/Its existence above and beyond their imagination. They simply deify their own common sense.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 56 of 303 (667473)
07-07-2012 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by 2ndReign
10-03-2010 1:24 AM


If Intelligence Exists....
quote:
don't believe in God personally but for the sake of discussion, I will concede that he does exist for the simple fact how can there be any kind of in-depth discussion on God if we are still arguing weather God exists or not.

Here is an argument. IF intelligence exists, I propose that it is logical for a supreme intelligence to exist. It makes no sense to me that the universe basically evolves by sheer chance and then compresses back in on itself to start over infinitely. That makes no sense.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 58 of 303 (667546)
07-09-2012 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Dr Adequate
07-07-2012 10:17 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Dr.Adequate writes:

I guess someone must be most intelligent, but why must someone be infinitely intelligent?

Good point. The inference is on a Creator, and we would like for such a Being(if it exists) to be well qualified in order to create a universe and be capable of knowing every living thing intimately. Infinity is a preferred characteristic of such a Being.
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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 60 of 303 (667550)
07-09-2012 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Dr Adequate
07-09-2012 1:20 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
are you implying that GOD, if God exists, is radically different from what we likely would prefer?
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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 62 of 303 (667555)
07-09-2012 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by jar
07-09-2012 1:40 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Well if so, this is a profound and sobering reality. Humans have always sought belief and confirmation of favorable gods and not unfavorable ones. Much of modern Christianity is adamant that God loves us and desires the very best for us.

Even if God did not exist, we humans collectively also want what is best for us as a species, though we often fight over limited resources and want for our own over the needs of others.

Phil 2:3 says Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

Thus our holy books, whether written by God or by man tell us the greater good. Sometimes I imagine God sitting on the sidelines telling us "You can do it! I believe in you" .....which puts a load of responsibility on humanities back. Will we blow ourselves up, go through a great depression, or will we make it?

I still prefer the idea of a God who helps us, however.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 67 of 303 (667605)
07-10-2012 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by ProtoTypical
10-03-2010 10:28 PM


God Is.....
Unfortunately, it also presupposes pantheism.
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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 69 of 303 (673794)
09-23-2012 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Dr Adequate
07-09-2012 4:37 PM


Re: If Intelligence Exists....
Dr.Adequate writes:

clearly if God exists he's different from at least what I would want (I can't speak for you) because if he exists I'd like him to manifest himself rather than hiding and pretending that he's not there.

Assuming that ifGod exists that He wants what is best for humanity, what would be the possible motive for "hiding"?


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 74 of 303 (674187)
09-27-2012 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Tangle
09-24-2012 1:38 PM


A Creator could be temporary
Tangle writes:

How would we know if there was a god once but isn't anymore?

Good point. Perhaps we want our definition of God to be omni everything, but perhaps this God was only temporary. Now what?

Edited by Phat, : spelling


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 76 of 303 (674210)
09-27-2012 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Tangle
09-27-2012 2:28 AM


Academic Interest
Dr.Adequate writes:

We'd like a creator of the universe who was good and wise and so forth. We'd also like it if cigarettes weren't carcinogenic and chocolate was slimming. What we want doesn't make any difference to what is the case.

But in answer to your question, clearly if God exists he's different from at least what I would want (I can't speak for you) because if he exists I'd like him to manifest himself rather than hiding and pretending that he's not there.

Tangle writes:

Well, if we can't tell the difference between a god that exists and a god that doesn't exist (either because he never did exist or because he did once but now he doesn't) my conclusion is that God is of academic interest only.

OK...so I have two questions for you, tangle.
1) Hypothetically, would you want a God to exist? If so, what attributes would He/She/It have?

2) If you did not want or need a God to exist,but it were revealed that one or more did, what academic interest would you have in discovering/describing/interacting with He/She/It/Them?


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 78 of 303 (674744)
10-02-2012 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Straggler
10-02-2012 12:54 PM


Re: Academic Interest
quote:
Assuming that God does exist are you happy with the god you've got? Or would you hope for something better from a supreme being?

I always hope for better. More precisely, i believe that what I have got in terms of character is as good as it gets, but what I hope for in blessing can always improve.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 79 of 303 (674863)
10-03-2012 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by ringo
10-03-2010 6:37 PM


God did the job for us
Ringo writes:

Attempting to define God, or even describe God, is what's called "idolatry" in the Bible. If God is as great as He (supposedly) is, any attempt to define or describe Him diminishes Him.(...) It takes a big description to define a small thing, so no human definition of God (if there was a God) could ever be be big enough.

Thats why God became man. He did the downsizing for us so that we could conceive of Him being close to us. Why is that concept so hard to grasp? Although to be fair, I would not limit God to Jesus the man. I just feel that now I have an envoy.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 81 of 303 (674866)
10-03-2012 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by ringo
10-03-2012 4:11 PM


Re: God did the job for us
ringo writes:

Jesus was an example of what man can be, not a definition of God.

And yet Jesus was unafraid of idolatry when He simply called God His Father. He knew all of the rules. So why was He so intimate with this vast all powerful Deity? And why was He unafraid of committing idolatry? He apparently knew God quite well.....
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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 85 of 303 (674904)
10-04-2012 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by ringo
10-03-2012 5:49 PM


Re: God did the job for us
Ringo writes:

You could ask the same question of anybody who claims to have "communion" with God.

My point is that if it was good enough for Jesus...we shouldn't worry about following His example, unless you are prepared to make the assertion that Christ Himself was a bit crazy.

To place God on some pedestal as totally unapproachable and forever mysterious and unconfirmed only leaves humans with no Deity at all.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7188
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 87 of 303 (674981)
10-04-2012 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by ringo
10-04-2012 12:17 PM


To define God is to define an Ultimate
Ringo writes:

I think we should follow Jesus' example - whether we believe he was the son of God or not - because it was a good example. Thinking he was the son of God might have been a bit crazy but he can still be a good example to us.

Yeah but what good is a religion with no power and no Deity? All we have left is boy scout merit badges...hardly the stuff to follow devoutly.
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