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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
Phat
Member
Posts: 9564
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 181 of 325 (643294)
12-06-2011 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by jar
12-05-2011 10:35 PM


Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:

Trading is done by conversion based on the then current exchange rate.

Do you understand what that means?

Not exactly. I am googling for answers and for better questions to ask. The central premise of my rant was that if the United States continues to be irresponsible in handling our debt problems, the rest of the world may pass us by. And that's not fair for average Joe's like me who have every right to be as prosperous as any China-man.

China Plans Path to Economic Hegemony

China would like to make the yuan one of the world's anchor currencies, forcing other countries to maintain reserves of Chinese money and providing significant advantages for Beijing....
Even before he left Beijing, the visiting head of state had predicted that the dominant capitalist power could expect to see a redistribution of global power. In written interviews with the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post, the Chinese leader said that the world's monetary system, with the US dollar as its reserve currency, was a "product of the past."

So evidently reserve currency=anchor currency.

China's long-term goal is to become a country with an anchor currency. If that happens, other countries will have to maintain reserves of the yuan instead of the current reserve currencies, the dollar and the euro. China could then use its own currency to conduct transactions, gaining more favorable terms as a result, in its global shopping spree, such as in the commodities markets.

And yes, this is a problem. You have mentioned many times before that we in the US need a fifty year plan to rebuild our nation. Reality shows us, however, that our Congressional committees can't even agree on what to cut from the budget. Other nations see this and are calling for the dollar to get booted out of its anchor currency spot which gives us favorable terms in pricing...as in the c ase of oil, for example. Right? And those Chinese have studied up on this!

Years ago, Hu and the Politburo attended secret lectures in which Chinese professors explained the history of the rise and fall of major powers. During these sessions, the Chinese leaders realized that no modern country has ever become a superpower without a reserve currency.

The United States superseded the British Empire after World War II, when the dollar replaced the British pound as the dominant currency in the global financial system. This explains why Beijing has pursued the internationalization of the yuan since the outbreak of the global financial crisis, which the Chinese believe has irrevocably harmed their American rival.

What I am assuming from this article is that what advantages China stands to gain are the advantages which we now have, yet are losing. For example....

In order to have a reserve currency, China would have to give up all of this. It would have to gradually appreciate its currency, perhaps even allowing it to float freely, so that the exchange rate could be based on the real value of the currency and the strength of China's economy. This would make the country's exports substantially more expensive and would drastically curb growth.
Thus, the strength of our economy is tied into the dollars future success or failure now!

Apparently, China is not quite ready to take over yet.

This is because the Chinese cannot offer an alternative to the dollar. To keep its currency artificially low, the central bank sweeps together foreign currency in the domestic banking system, as if it were wielding a giant broom. In this way, China increased its foreign currency reserves last year by $450 billion to $2.85 trillion (330 million to 2.08 billion). Beijing invests a large portion of the funds in American treasury bonds, thus financing the debt management policy of the still dominant Western superpower.

Now of course, much of our problem is traced to the fact that 90% of Americans don't understand this stuff at all. I know I don't, but am attempting to use deductive reasoning to try and make sense of it all. I read a lot of opinions, blogs, articles and papers from many different sources. Much of it is simply untrue, and its my responsibility to try and make sense of it all. As an example, I wondered why it seemed as if America was turning against itself.

Why do the competing ideologies of the two party system cause almost a national paralysis in our Congressional system? It irks me that these politicians get paid for concluding that stalemate is the only option! Compounding this problem is the fact that the American public wants instant gratification, a return to the good old days, and the warm and comfortable feeling that we had during the aberration period after World War II.

Jon Jost,a filmmaker, has lived since 1962 in Chicago, San Francisco, Ben Lomond, Los Angeles, Leucadia (Ca.); Cottage Grove (OR), Kalispell, Butte (MT), Berlin, London, Lisbon, Frankfurt, Paris, Rome, New York City, Portland, and Lincoln NE. He presently lives, single again, in Seoul, S Korea, where he quit his job as Distinguished Professor at Yonsei University in July. His blog talks of the demise of America based on his perspective, and has lots of great photographs and artwork. He explains why the middle class in America is so mad at the so-called 1% of the wealthiest people.

JonJostWeblog writes:

Unaware of where their previous wealth was secured by imperial/capitalist exploitation when the same is applied directly to themselves, the citizenry of the once all-powerful USA finds itself grasping at straws.

Capitalism is running low on third world people to exploit, and thus we are turning on ourselves.

The business of America is business, said Calvin Coolidge, and for the most part it seems Americans have taken that mantra as their own. We live, it seems, to make money. The politics of the moment merely underline this old American adage, as Representative Ryan sells his snake-oil plan and President Obama retorts with his. Shall we or shall we not throw Granny and Gramps under the bus? Or when and how?
The system is broken, and Jost also agrees with something you have said a time or two, jar:
Inexorably the nation moves towards its fiscal truth, which certainly no elected politician can utter, except in the most oblique of manners: the bill has come due, and it must be paid. We dont really say from whom the bill comes and we dont really say why. Instead we discuss who must pay it, and how. The reason is that an honest look all points to the very system which America has raised to a religion, that good old Free Market Economy Capitalism, which, left to its own devices does whatever is needed to make a bigger faster buck. If towards that end ravaging the landscape, selling sugar and oil saturated food to ever bigger and sicker customers, peddling fast gas guzzling cars, shipping factories and production systems to lands of cheaper labor and less onerous regulations, building a giant near-private military establishment to protect our global interests, and developing an all pervasive mass media to sell lies to the citizenry all looks to make the quickest fortune, then America will do it. Thats how capitalism works, and it has worked its magic on America.

Getting back to the Giant Pool Of Money, I worry that once the pool leaves the hands of Americans and becomes the deposits of foreigners, it will be nearly impossible to get it back.

And yes, we have discussed education. My question, among many, is why no politician simply lays it all out for what Buzsaw calls "The Sheeple".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by jar, posted 12-05-2011 10:35 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 10:10 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29182
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 182 of 325 (643320)
12-06-2011 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Phat
12-06-2011 3:28 AM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
Pricing oil in dollars does not give the US any advantage; when the dollar is strong (meaning the US Economy is strong) oil is cheaper and when the dollar is weak oil is more expensive.

The strength of the dollar is dependent on the US economy, not on its status.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Phat, posted 12-06-2011 3:28 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Phat, posted 12-06-2011 11:54 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9564
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 183 of 325 (643343)
12-06-2011 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by jar
12-06-2011 10:10 AM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:

The strength of the dollar is dependent on the US economy, not on its status.

OK.

Should the creation of jobs be minimum wage jobs at the expense of higher paid jobs? This recession has shown us how vulnerable the Middle Class are to bumps in the economy. The wealthier people seemingly know of no comparable hardship.

Could America survive without the Forbes 400?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 10:10 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 12:20 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29182
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 184 of 325 (643351)
12-06-2011 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Phat
12-06-2011 11:54 AM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
I have no idea what your post has to do with either the topic or currency exchange?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Phat, posted 12-06-2011 11:54 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 12-06-2011 12:59 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9564
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 185 of 325 (643365)
12-06-2011 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by jar
12-06-2011 12:20 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:

have no idea what your post has to do with either the topic or currency exchange?

Earlier, I said:

I worry that once the pool leaves the hands of Americans and becomes the deposits of foreigners, it will be nearly impossible to get it back.
What I am getting at is that our own wealthy are taking our money from us and keeping it for themselves.

The U.S. middle class is under attack not only by foreign competition but from our domestic monied class.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 12:20 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 2:43 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29182
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 186 of 325 (643380)
12-06-2011 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Phat
12-06-2011 12:59 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
There is no attack from foreign competition.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 12-06-2011 12:59 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Phat, posted 12-06-2011 9:05 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9564
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 187 of 325 (643432)
12-06-2011 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by jar
12-06-2011 2:43 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:

There is no attack from foreign competition.

They are underbidding us and forcing us to work for less.

Take I.T. workers. The ones from India will work for $40,000 a year, half what US ones used to be paid. A successful competitive effort is construed by many as an "attack" upon our very way of life and standard of living.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 2:43 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 9:14 PM Phat has responded
 Message 189 by DrJones*, posted 12-06-2011 9:17 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29182
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 188 of 325 (643433)
12-06-2011 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Phat
12-06-2011 9:05 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
Aw. Tough.

They are not forcing you to work for less.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Phat, posted 12-06-2011 9:05 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 12-07-2011 4:56 PM jar has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1670
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 189 of 325 (643434)
12-06-2011 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Phat
12-06-2011 9:05 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
They are underbidding us and forcing us to work for less.

Yay capitalism!

God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel.- Buzsaw Message 177

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Phat, posted 12-06-2011 9:05 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9564
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 190 of 325 (643521)
12-07-2011 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by jar
12-06-2011 9:14 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:

They are not forcing you to work for less.

If enough new employees agree to work for less of a wage than I am making, they very well could vote my wage down if there came an ultimatum.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 9:14 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 12-07-2011 5:08 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29182
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 191 of 325 (643522)
12-07-2011 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Phat
12-07-2011 4:56 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
Zoooooom There go the goal posts yet again.

Foreign Competition is NOT looking for your job.

And sure, it has always been true that "If enough new employees agree to work for less of a wage than I am making, they very well could vote my wage down if there came an ultimatum."


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 12-07-2011 4:56 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by hooah212002, posted 12-07-2011 5:27 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 12-07-2011 5:30 PM jar has responded

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 399 days)
Posts: 3180
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 192 of 325 (643526)
12-07-2011 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by jar
12-07-2011 5:08 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
Foreign Competition is NOT looking for your job.

Exactly. They are accepting the jobs OUR employers are offering them. I had this discussion with my father (who makes extremely bigoted comments on this subject) and his "beef" is with the employees as opposed to the employers. Think South Park and "They tuk err jaaabs". I have yet to get him to understand that no one is "taking" your job, US employers (and the gub'ment to some extent) are giving them your job. Just because they are more willing than you to work for less says nothing about either one of you except maybe that they need a job more than you need a raise.


"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 12-07-2011 5:08 PM jar has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9564
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 193 of 325 (643528)
12-07-2011 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by jar
12-07-2011 5:08 PM


Hollowed Out Middle Class
jar writes:

And sure, it has always been true that "If enough new employees agree to work for less of a wage than I am making, they very well could vote my wage down if there came an ultimatum."

People will take scraps if they get hungry enough.

Fareed Zacharias writes:

CNN: You wrote in your Time cover story that the American middle class is being "hollowed out." What does that mean?

Fareed Zakaria: Well, if you think about it, middle class to most Americans means somebody who has a good high school education, somebody who didn't go to fancy schools or grow up in a fancy suburb, but somebody who is working on a factory floor as a foreman, or a manager, or maybe in sales or administration.

What's happened to these people is that these jobs have a certain kind of routine nature to them. What technology has done over the last 10 or 15 years, it's become possible to do many of these tasks through computer programs. Now computer programs need to be monitored and supervised, but it takes far fewer people to do that ... and the people supervising computers need to be more high-end, more skilled people.

They wont get paid even as much as we make now, however. They will have more skills and get paid less. Watch it happen at your local grocery store.

Its a shame that the US middle class is being exploited by corporate interests who see labor as a mere number on an expense sheet.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 12-07-2011 5:08 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by jar, posted 12-07-2011 5:37 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29182
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 194 of 325 (643529)
12-07-2011 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
12-07-2011 5:30 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Again...zooom...thar they go.

Yup Phat, them what made buggy whips got left out.

Phat, it is up to YOU to make YOURSELF valuable.

The first step is to actually learn the basics.

That technology will replace semi skilled labor has been true for three centuries at least.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 12-07-2011 5:30 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by xongsmith, posted 12-08-2011 3:10 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1787
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 195 of 325 (643552)
12-08-2011 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by jar
12-07-2011 5:37 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Jar advises:
Phat, it is up to YOU to make YOURSELF valuable.

The first step is to actually learn the basics.

In the case of I.T, that is OLD school advice. Problem now is that the basics are constantly being thrown out in favor of these new latest & greatest basics. So, you take time to learn the basics, but what you just learned is immediately obsolete. So, you take time to learn the newer stuff, and it is also obsolete when you get the knowledge. This is the first time in the USA that an industry behaves like this. What they've made people have to do in this field today to survive is to MAKE the new basics out of thin air and bullshit advertising, stiff-arming away years of experience.

So then you have countries like India and other foreign countries making shops of employees with resume's (C.V.'s for you in the UK and elsewhere) based on bald-faced LIES on credentials and no real knowledge of anything. American companies, concerned with the bottom line and the latest buzzwords, hire them at dirt cheap prices and they get dirt cheap work. Whoopee. My advice: stay out of I.T. - you will never get a career out of it. Only temp jobs. No security. It's dog eat dog. Cat eat cat. Rat eat rat. No 3-bullet PowerPoint viewgraph will ever be able to show what's really going on, because things get way more complex than that quickly, but management loves them so much they are willing to sell the USA down the river, just so they can score PowerPoint bullets.

Management - there's a reason they call it KICKING them upstairs. It's because they are only capable of understanding 3-bullet viewgraphs.

[/endRANT]


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by jar, posted 12-07-2011 5:37 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 12-08-2011 10:22 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

    
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