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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
jar
Member
Posts: 28433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 211 of 254 (643646)
12-09-2011 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Buzsaw
12-09-2011 8:27 PM


Re: Corrosive Resistant
So they understand that the paper money is both more valuable and also more stable than precious metals?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Buzsaw, posted 12-09-2011 8:27 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 212 of 254 (643648)
12-09-2011 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Buzsaw
12-09-2011 8:16 PM


Re: Corrosive Resistant
Mmm, Crashfrog. Anybody? How and where?

This will blow your mind: with shovels, right out of the goddamn ground.

What are you waiting for????

What am I waiting for for what?

How come there's never, in human history, been enough gold and silver to render it as value-less as paper?

Because its easier to cut down a tree than mine silver. And I wouldn't say paper is "valueless"; when I print on campus I have to pay 9 cents a page. Part of that is the toner but most of that is the paper.

There has never been enough to depreciate its value.

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong, Buz? Look at the historical value of silver:

In the long term silver has never done anything but inflate and lose value, because we keep mining it. And it basically never goes away; now that we don't use film anymore there's basically zero significant non-recyclable silver applications.

Seriously, Buz. Why don't you look things up before you say the complete opposite of what is true?

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Make graphic a bit smaller.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Buzsaw, posted 12-09-2011 8:16 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 12-10-2011 2:49 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 213 of 254 (643656)
12-10-2011 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by crashfrog
12-09-2011 9:14 PM


Re: Corrosive Resistant
I notice the chart ends when the price was $6.84. Today, its a little over $32.00. Im not convinced that this investment is dead yet.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by crashfrog, posted 12-09-2011 9:14 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 214 of 254 (645517)
12-27-2011 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Rahvin
10-05-2010 4:42 PM


Inflation Dead Ahead
Rahvin writes:

How can you know that the implications are scary without understanding them or even knowing what they are? Do you know some of the implications of a growing pool of global money, and you find those to be scary and want to know any other implications?

Some of the information that I have been reading and pondering suggests that inflation is inevitable. In fact, many predict inflation that will not only be double digit, but will approach 100% for two or three years straight. This is scary because it will wipe out the savings of many middle class Americans, like my Mother, who hail from the greatest generation. In addition, it will leave people like me with no nest egg and, in all likelihood, no nest!!

Crashfrog, I know you think inflation is a good thing, but you will be made soberly aware of just how devastating it will be for our once great economy.

One book that explores the shady strategy used by governments throughout history was written by Milton Friedman.
Money Mischief: Episodes in Monetary History

quote:
Although Friedman is well known as an economic right winger, there is nothing in this account that should be displeasing to anyone from the left - Friedman's case is against mismanagement, not for small or big governments. Nor is there any argument about whether government spending should go to the military, to welfare, or to any other cause. Although Friedman's book is filled with stories of the political economy, its moral is politically neutral. Indeed, Friedman clearly discusses how inflation is often used by governments because direct taxation is unpopular (p.205)

For those of you who think me unlearned in these matters, I am willing to stand by this prediction: Inflation will approach 100% within 5 years and will destroy the remaining wealth of the US Middle Class, (though perhaps it may help pay much of the debt)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Rahvin, posted 10-05-2010 4:42 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by crashfrog, posted 12-28-2011 8:25 AM Phat has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 215 of 254 (645585)
12-28-2011 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
12-27-2011 3:16 PM


Re: Inflation Dead Ahead
Some of the information that I have been reading and pondering suggests that inflation is inevitable. In fact, many predict inflation that will not only be double digit, but will approach 100% for two or three years straight.

"Many"? Who, Phat? Name even one credible economist who is predicting that US inflation will hit an incredibly ahistorical 100% any time in the next ten years based on current policy. And what would be the basis for this inflation, when the US has ample unused production capacity?

What the fuck are you even talking about?

Crashfrog, I know you think inflation is a good thing

Well, to be fair - and I don't see how you can get this so wrong after I've so patiently explained it to you - I think something on the order of a 4-5% inflation rate is a good thing. That's the opinion universally shared by economists. Now, for the most part economists are witch doctors, but I take their opinions slightly more seriously than random people on the internet. I see that you've decided to join Buzsaw by doing the exact opposite.

Inflation will approach 100% within 5 years and will destroy the remaining wealth of the US Middle Class, (though perhaps it may help pay much of the debt)

It's almost the new year so lets say that 5 years from now is January 2017. The CPI increase rate for 2017 would be out in, say, March? I'll bet you $100 inflation-adjusted 2017 dollars that the annual American inflation rate over the next 5 years doesn't rise above 12%. Bet?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 12-27-2011 3:16 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Phat, posted 12-28-2011 9:26 PM crashfrog has not yet responded
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 12-29-2011 6:37 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 216 of 254 (645665)
12-28-2011 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by crashfrog
12-28-2011 8:25 AM


Re: Inflation Dead Ahead
Crashfrog writes:

It's almost the new year so lets say that 5 years from now is January 2017. The CPI increase rate for 2017 would be out in, say, March? I'll bet you $100 inflation-adjusted 2017 dollars that the annual American inflation rate over the next 5 years doesn't rise above 12%. Bet?

Bet. *shake*

Federal Reserve Bank Of St.Louis writes:

A considerable amount of disagreement seems to exist among economists about the inflation outlook over the next few years. Some economists are quite worried about the potential for much higher inflation, while others are more concerned about the potential risk of inflation falling to uncomfortably low levelsor even the possibility of deflation (a fall in the aggregate price level). Much of this disagreement reflects, on the one hand, the Federal Reserve's aggressive response to the deep recession, the financial crisis and the exceptionally large federal budget deficits, and on the other hand, the downward pressure on wages and prices that typically occurs in the aftermath of a deep recession.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by crashfrog, posted 12-28-2011 8:25 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Omnivorous, posted 12-29-2011 10:19 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 217 of 254 (645714)
12-29-2011 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by crashfrog
12-28-2011 8:25 AM


A Lot Rides On This Bet
To be quite honest, I want to have a boogieman to blame for why the economy wont work. People like you represent a majority, logical, rational and reasoned opinion. You don't see a crises.

People like me want such a crises. While I am not as far as Buz and don't want Jehovah to come back and judge the nations, it would give me a small thrill to see the Wall Street insiders be wrong for once. I can't stand that the middle class has been exploited. I cant stand that the rest of the world passed us by and took away our edge that we enjoyed in prosperity.

It would thrill me to see the majority of Wall Street investors get burned. I despise the 1 %. I despise people who make money when I don't or can't.

Much of my current information comes from Newsmax and from Bob Wedemer, coauthor of the book Aftershock.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by crashfrog, posted 12-28-2011 8:25 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by jar, posted 12-29-2011 9:44 AM Phat has responded
 Message 222 by NoNukes, posted 12-29-2011 4:22 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 227 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-02-2013 2:29 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 218 of 254 (645737)
12-29-2011 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
12-29-2011 6:37 AM


Re: A Lot Rides On This Bet
And you do know the history of both Newsmax and Bob Wedemer?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 12-29-2011 6:37 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Phat, posted 12-29-2011 11:18 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 219 of 254 (645745)
12-29-2011 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by jar
12-29-2011 9:44 AM


Re: A Lot Rides On This Bet
Yes. That sort of stuff is irrelevant to folks like me because we want to believe what makes us feel good. Thats the whole idea that I wanted to explain to Crashfrog. You see, if there is not gonna be a crash or a crises, the fact remains that I will be broke...and that others will prosper. I cant accept a future like that. Bring on the gloom and doom. We all need to suffer to make this fair.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by jar, posted 12-29-2011 9:44 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 12-29-2011 11:26 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 220 of 254 (645746)
12-29-2011 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Phat
12-29-2011 11:18 AM


Re: A Lot Rides On This Bet
You do understand that if you decide to bring on the gloom and doom, those who have prepared will still not suffer?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Phat, posted 12-29-2011 11:18 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Phat, posted 12-29-2011 11:53 AM jar has acknowledged this reply
 Message 226 by Phat, posted 04-02-2013 1:51 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 221 of 254 (645747)
12-29-2011 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by jar
12-29-2011 11:26 AM


Re: A Lot Rides On This Bet
that's fine...I am not a total masochist. I simply don't like the idea of an inner track of wealthy investors who continually make money based on inside information and I hope that Wedermeir is right when he predicts that the dollar and the debt bubble will pop and that the playing field will be leveled as inflation eats up the middle income. Assuming, of course, that I can help prevent my Mom from getting wiped out.

ABE: Wedermer has a strategy for people to prepare for this and a host of investments that he says will weather the storm.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 12-29-2011 11:26 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9322
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 222 of 254 (645754)
12-29-2011 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
12-29-2011 6:37 AM


Re: A Lot Rides On This Bet
To be quite honest, I want to have a boogieman to blame for why the economy wont work. People like you represent a majority, logical, rational and reasoned opinion. You don't see a crises.

I want the Atlanta Hawks to win the NBA championship this year, but I'm not going to bet $100 dollars on that proposition.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 12-29-2011 6:37 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 318 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 223 of 254 (645777)
12-29-2011 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Phat
12-28-2011 9:26 PM


Re: Inflation Dead Ahead
Phat writes:

Bet. *shake*

12%?

You bet $100 the annual inflation rate would exceed 12% within the next five years?

Oh Phat.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Phat, posted 12-28-2011 9:26 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Phat, posted 12-30-2011 11:59 AM Omnivorous has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 224 of 254 (645821)
12-30-2011 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Omnivorous
12-29-2011 10:19 PM


Re: Inflation Dead Ahead
quote:
Whats even more simple is whats going to happen to the dollar. Its going to
collapse along the same lines as the Mark did in Germany in the early, pre‐Nazi,
1920s. It was then that it took a wheel barrel full of marks to buy a loaf of bread.
The same will happen to the currencies of all Western governments as the debt
situation is far worse than is being reported.
Another wise man whom I trust, Conrad Michael Modica. He use to work on the stock market and knows more about the gold market than any 5 others put together.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Omnivorous, posted 12-29-2011 10:19 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 225 of 254 (695079)
04-02-2013 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Rahvin
10-05-2010 4:42 PM


Implications Of U.S. Economic Demise
How can you know that the implications are scary without understanding them or even knowing what they are?

This article highlights and emphasizes lots of the previously unfounded fears that many of us see.

The article, written by ex Reagan budget advisor David Stockman, essentially lays out Stockmans assessment of the spending binge initiated by the G.O.P.

quote:
The destruction of fiscal rectitude under Ronald Reagan one reason I resigned as his budget chief in 1985 was the greatest of his many dramatic acts. It created a template for the Republicans utter abandonment of the balanced-budget policies of Calvin Coolidge and allowed George W. Bush to dive into the deep end, bankrupting the nation through two misbegotten and unfinanced wars, a giant expansion of Medicare and a tax-cutting spree for the wealthy that turned K Street lobbyists into the de facto office of national tax policy. In effect, the G.O.P. embraced Keynesianism for the wealthy...The modern Keynesian state is broke, paralyzed and mired in empty ritual incantations about stimulating demand, even as it fosters a mutant crony capitalism that periodically lavishes the top 1 percent with speculative windfalls.
The guy makes sense to me...what does anyone else think?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Rahvin, posted 10-05-2010 4:42 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by ooh-child, posted 04-02-2013 6:13 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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