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Author Topic:   Life on other Planets?
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 141 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 151 of 160 (603197)
02-03-2011 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by frako
02-03-2011 6:34 AM


Hi, Frako.

frako writes:

Becauzse its roughly the only comparrison we got...

We could try comparing them to a more advanced society, because that would seem to be a more appropriate comparison, anyway.

-----

frako writes:

The native americans live in reservations while this was their continent...

They're just as free to move about the country as anybody else in the USA. I know a lot of Native Americans of several different tribes who don't live on reservations, and hold jobs that are just as good as anybody else's jobs.

Sure, it's not perfect, but there's been a lot of progress since the 19th century, and we should predict, based on this, that a society that has had more development than us would have made more progress than we have.

-----

frako writes:

...but if the subjects are less intelligent then humans say the intelligence of a cow they get to live in a space to small for them to turn they get feed nasty shit so they can get fat real fast and then they get killed and slaughtered. So what do you think a smarter race would do to us a race that would regard our intelligence the same way we regard the intelligence of a cow...

Knowledge and intelligence are not the same thing. Just because aliens know more than us and have a more advanced society than us, doesn't mean that their intelligence is inherently superior to ours in the way that ours is inherently superior to cows'.

Surely you don't think that an alien society that understands how the universe operates well enough to travel among the stars would be too stupid to recognize the difference.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by frako, posted 02-03-2011 6:34 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by frako, posted 02-03-2011 2:29 PM Blue Jay has responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5867
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 152 of 160 (603199)
02-03-2011 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Blue Jay
02-03-2011 10:13 AM


Economy
Our economy is based on (cheap) energy.

Energy replaces manual labor in many areas now, allowing a few laborers to do the work of many.

It would seem logical that spacefaring societies would have access to better sources of energy than we now have.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Blue Jay, posted 02-03-2011 10:13 AM Blue Jay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Blue Jay, posted 02-04-2011 10:31 AM Coyote has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2699
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 153 of 160 (603254)
02-03-2011 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Blue Jay
02-03-2011 10:42 AM


We could try comparing them to a more advanced society, because that would seem to be a more appropriate comparison, anyway.

Ohh ok lets compare them to america, waging a ware every 20 years, exploiting imigrant labure ......

They're just as free to move about the country as anybody else in the USA. I know a lot of Native Americans of several different tribes who don't live on reservations, and hold jobs that are just as good as anybody else's jobs.

We would be just as free as them roaming the earth as long as we follow their rules.

Knowledge and intelligence are not the same thing. Just because aliens know more than us and have a more advanced society than us, doesn't mean that their intelligence is inherently superior to ours in the way that ours is inherently superior to cows'.

It is fare mor likley that it is genetic enginiring cyber implants .... would all be old news to them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Blue Jay, posted 02-03-2011 10:42 AM Blue Jay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Blue Jay, posted 02-04-2011 11:10 AM frako has not yet responded

    
GLaDOS
Junior Member (Idle past 2245 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 02-03-2011


Message 154 of 160 (603281)
02-03-2011 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Bolder-dash
12-02-2010 11:32 PM


Yes
Given the vastness of the universe I think it is safe to say there is other intelligent life out their. As far as evidence goes their is some evidence of sutible 'life-inhibiting' planets, it is only due to our severly limited technology that actual evidence of intelligent life-forms have not yet been discovered.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-02-2010 11:32 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

    
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 141 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 155 of 160 (603380)
02-04-2011 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Coyote
02-03-2011 10:55 AM


Re: Economy
Hi, Coyote.

Coyote writes:

It would seem logical that spacefaring societies would have access to better sources of energy than we now have.

I agree. I'm not really sure what you're getting at though.

Is this a reason not expect them to exploit us for labor?

Or, is this a reason to expect travel to be less of a problem?


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Coyote, posted 02-03-2011 10:55 AM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Coyote, posted 02-04-2011 10:35 AM Blue Jay has responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5867
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 156 of 160 (603381)
02-04-2011 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Blue Jay
02-04-2011 10:31 AM


Re: Economy
With access to that much energy, manual labor is much less necessary.

But this does remind me of an old story, titled "To Serve Man."


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Blue Jay, posted 02-04-2011 10:31 AM Blue Jay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Blue Jay, posted 02-04-2011 11:19 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 141 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 157 of 160 (603386)
02-04-2011 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by frako
02-03-2011 2:29 PM


Hi, Frako.

frako writes:

Bluejay writes:

We could try comparing them to a more advanced society, because that would seem to be a more appropriate comparison, anyway.

Ohh ok lets compare them to america, waging a ware every 20 years, exploiting imigrant labure ......

Then, let's go there. Note that the USA didn't start any of the wars we are accused of "waging" in the past century (with the possible exception of the current ones). In fact, we only got involved in any of them at the specific request of the parties involved (the Allies, Korea, South Vietnam, etc.), or when somebody brought us into it by attacking us directly (Pearl Harbor).

So, if you're going to compare advanced aliens to the USA, then all we have to fear from alien invaders is retaliation if we start a conflict.

And, "exploiting immigrant labor" means "paying them small amounts of money (but still more money than they would have made back home) when they voluntarily come to the USA to work."

So, if you're going to compare advanced aliens to the USA, then all you have to complain about is not getting paid as much as aliens (but still more than you would make here) when you immigrate to their lands.

If these are your real concerns with advanced alien "invaders," then I think your comparisons between them and 19th century imperialists is petty.

-----

frako writes:

Bluejay writes:

They're just as free to move about the country as anybody else in the USA. I know a lot of Native Americans of several different tribes who don't live on reservations, and hold jobs that are just as good as anybody else's jobs.

We would be just as free as them roaming the earth as long as we follow their rules.

Native Americans currently enjoy all the freedoms I enjoy as a white man living in the United States. I took no part in making the rules that both they and I have to live by, and neither did any white person that I know personally, so it's totally ridiculous for you to characterize "them" as having to follow "our" rules.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by frako, posted 02-03-2011 2:29 PM frako has not yet responded

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 141 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 158 of 160 (603387)
02-04-2011 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Coyote
02-04-2011 10:35 AM


Re: Economy
Hi, Coyote.

Coyote writes:

With access to that much energy, manual labor is much less necessary.

But this does remind me of an old story, titled "To Serve Man."

Ooh, that was a good one. Also a good point: maybe advanced aliens would be, not capitalists or imperialists, but predators looking to eat us.

My inclination is to think that human-level or higher intelligence is more likely to derive from adaptable omnivores than from hypercarnivores, simply because intelligence increases flexibility more than functionality; but I suppose I have no way of being particularly confident of that conclusion.

In any event, I still support the idea that, as long as we're discussing alien invasions, we should be prepared for a worst-case scenario (i.e. invaders who want to rain down total destruction on us). I just don't understand why so many people are so quick to speculate that aliens are most likely going to be like this.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Coyote, posted 02-04-2011 10:35 AM Coyote has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by hooah212002, posted 02-04-2011 12:24 PM Blue Jay has acknowledged this reply

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 3180
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 159 of 160 (603424)
02-04-2011 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Blue Jay
02-04-2011 11:19 AM


Re: Economy
I just don't understand why so many people are so quick to speculate that aliens are most likely going to be like this.

How many alien movies have YOU seen where the aliens were peaceful?


"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Blue Jay, posted 02-04-2011 11:19 AM Blue Jay has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by bluescat48, posted 02-04-2011 12:59 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 1633 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 160 of 160 (603437)
02-04-2011 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by hooah212002
02-04-2011 12:24 PM


Re: Economy
hooah212002 writes:

Bluejay writes:

I just don't understand why so many people are so quick to speculate that aliens are most likely going to be like this.


How many alien movies have YOU seen where the aliens were peaceful?

Typical, humans tend to anthropormorphisize everything.

{The next message was spam and was deleted - Adminnemooseus)

Edited by bluescat48, : misplaced]

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : No reason given.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by hooah212002, posted 02-04-2011 12:24 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
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