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Author Topic:   Life on other Planets?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5698
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 106 of 160 (594694)
12-04-2010 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Larni
12-04-2010 3:26 PM


Correct the fact that there is random winning makes it more appealing psychologically.

Psychologically, winning all the time would be less rewarding.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Larni, posted 12-04-2010 3:26 PM Larni has not yet responded

    
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 977 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 107 of 160 (594750)
12-05-2010 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by crashfrog
12-04-2010 2:19 PM


Re: Bolder is a Liar
Crashfrog, Did you stutter or have a brain seizure when you where editing out your quotes? Do you work for Fox news? I am just gong to tell you something right now so you understand it very clear-I think you are a piece of shit. I think you are so utterly dishonest and so void of ethical standards whatsoever that you would virtually fabricate information just so you could seem more believable.

And to set the record straight (which I did to begin with)- not one single evolutionists aside from GDR(who doesn't believe in any reality outside of one's mind) came out against a belief in life on other planets. None you lying scum. Everyone came out with a minimum affirmation of probably.

Now you have the gall to say it was some kind of trap I played? What the heck does that even mean? Are you suggesting that if the question was asked in a different way that the answers would be different-for instance if I said "Do you believe in life on other planets, even without evidence, because I think that is a hypocritical intellectual position?" that maybe the people would answer differently.

Well, I will tell you my take on that, I don't think the answers would have been different from anyone at all, except for probably one exception-YOU. Because you don't have an honest intellectual thought in your vacuous head.

Its a trap! What freaking joke you are. Well, here's a warning for you, whenever you answer something on this forum its a trap! A trap so people can see how utterly mindless and full of shit you are. Keep that in mind the next time you try to falsify information or make another of your boneheaded claims and think no one will call you on it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by crashfrog, posted 12-04-2010 2:19 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by frako, posted 12-05-2010 6:03 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 109 by PaulK, posted 12-05-2010 6:27 AM Bolder-dash has responded
 Message 117 by lyx2no, posted 12-05-2010 8:59 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 124 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2010 12:36 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 127 by Panda, posted 12-05-2010 1:41 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2675
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 108 of 160 (594751)
12-05-2010 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 5:00 AM


Re: Bolder is a Liar
Haha lol you really think alien life and god are on the same probability scale

What we know about life:
- it can adapt to the moste extreme enviorments, extremofiles can live in ACID, The new found nasa microbe can substitute arsenic for phospor.....
- We know life exsists we see it here on erth
- We know there are other planets simmilar to erarth, and we know that life should be able to adapt to more extreme conditions

Based on all this it is verry reasnoble to asume that the possibility for life oudside of Earth is possible, and if it is possible it should happen given that we have about an infinitive number of planets in our universe.

What we know about god
we know we cant see him
We cant here him
He is suposed to have supernatural powers tough no evidence of this power
He wants you to.... wel depends on the book and religion you belong to.
And he does not want you to ... well depends on the book or religion and how you interpret it.
And we have a rational explenation for why people believe, for most so called miricals.

So alien life has circumstantial evidence to point to it.
God has no evidence to point to him.
Witch is more probable ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 5:00 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12424
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 109 of 160 (594756)
12-05-2010 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 5:00 AM


Re: Bolder is a Liar
Of course nobody has to trust what Crash says. They can just look at the first few pages of this thread and see that he is telling the truth.

Given the fact that there is life on Earth, the astronomical evidence leads us to rationally conclude that it is likely that there is some sort of life somewhere else in the universe (see Cavediver's post Message 16 where lays out the reasoning). We know that the number of visible stars (including those visible to telescopes) is huge. We have evidence that planets are not that rare (detecting planets around other stars is still very difficult, but we have a good number of examples). This evidence clearly exists and you cannot deny it.

I'll grant that you make attempts to dismiss this reasoning but your attempts are based on drawing bad analogies and therefore fail. Nor have you managed to offer an equivalent argument for the existence of God (your argument from order fails because any potential creator of our universe would also be an ordered entity and so we end up with an infinite regress - or the admission that order does not require a creator).

And so your whole argument for hypocrisy fails. And hurling abuse at Crashfrog hardly helps.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 5:00 AM Bolder-dash has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 7:58 AM PaulK has responded

    
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 977 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 110 of 160 (594763)
12-05-2010 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by PaulK
12-05-2010 6:27 AM


Re: Bolder is a Liar
Where did I lie? If you are going to make stupid accusations, I believe this forum requires you to back those up with some facts.

Crashfrog clearly distorted the facts by butchering up quotes to make it look as if some evolutionists actually said they don't have a believe in alien life. that is a lie, and now you are repeating it.

Now if you want to say that evidence is on your side, then we have to redefine what evidence means in science I guess then.

Furthermore, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that numbers make your case. Let's look at numbers for a second. In all the time that man has been here, and that there is a written history of the world, have we EVER witnessed life forming from non-life? Even once? How many numbers are on your side?

If its so possible, likely even according to you who claim to be are so discerning, then why do we have no evidence of it ever happening? We never see it. We have never witnessed new life spontaneously forming in our rivers, or in a puddle, or on our kitchen table, heck we haven't even managed to coax it into happening by purposely trying to do so in a laboratory!! Its so easy to happen, its inevitable!

And yet it appears to have only ever happened ONE time in the entire history of the world. So what numbers do you have? How many millions and millions of years has life had for it to happen over and over again? And it never does. Shouldn't we be finding evidence of new life forms appearing all the time? he conditions are right for it, aren't they? We have all the chemicals they need right here don't we? We have all the water they need right? All the ingredients you fools clam virtually guarantees it to happen..many times.

How odd. And how very contradictory to your convenient claims that is is so likely, so possible, so inevitable.

Edited by Bolder-dash, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by PaulK, posted 12-05-2010 6:27 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Straggler, posted 12-05-2010 8:09 AM Bolder-dash has responded
 Message 112 by PaulK, posted 12-05-2010 8:17 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 125 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2010 12:43 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10188
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 111 of 160 (594764)
12-05-2010 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 7:58 AM


Re: Bolder is a Liar
We know as an indisputable fact that life exists on this planet. We also know that there are a vast number of planets out there.

Whether you think life originated naturally, supernaturally or however else why would you think it limited just to this planet?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 7:58 AM Bolder-dash has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 8:20 AM Straggler has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12424
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 112 of 160 (594765)
12-05-2010 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 7:58 AM


Re: Bolder is a L
quote:

Where did I lie? If you are going to make stupid accusation,s I believe this forum requires you to back those up with some facts.

Where did I say that you lied ?

quote:

Crashfrog clearly distorted the facts by butchering up quotes to make it look as if some evolutionists actually said they don't have a believe in alien life. that is a lie, and now you are repeating it.

As i stated, we can see that he did not do so. If you read the posts you will see that the belief was typically expressed in terms of likelihood based on evidence that we DO have.,

quote:

Furthermore, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that numbers make your case. Let's look at numbers for a second. In all the time that man has been here, and that there is a written history of the world, have we EVER witnessed life forming from non-life? Even once?

How would we observe life coming from non-life ? While I would agree that it has not happened it has nothing to do with direct observation (since that is hopelessly impractical).

But the numbers mean that your argument CANNOT work. You can never argue from such an observation that it is UNLIKELY that life would form at least once on an Earth-like planet give time equal to the age of the Earth. The vast number of planets that are (probably) out there mean that we can allow for life being far less probable than you could possibly establish with such an argument, even if you used the whole age of the Earth and not the far smaller time that man has existed.

And even worse for your case, how life came about does not matter. Unless you can make a case that the source of Earthly life could or would only generate life here and nowhere else - and that there are no similar sources that could generate life elsewhere it does not matter. The question is about whether life exists elsewhere, not how it came about.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 7:58 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

    
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 977 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 113 of 160 (594766)
12-05-2010 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Straggler
12-05-2010 8:09 AM


Re: Bolder is a Liar
We know as an indisputable fact that life exists on this planet. We also know that there are a vast number of planets out there.

Whether you think life originated naturally, supernaturally or however else why would you think it limited just to this planet?

That's the reason that so many evolutionists would choose to believe there is life on other planets, but be almost rabidly adamant that there is no God?

Sort of makes your claim of being rationally objective kind of weak doesn't it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Straggler, posted 12-05-2010 8:09 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Straggler, posted 12-05-2010 8:32 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 115 by Omnivorous, posted 12-05-2010 8:37 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 118 by jar, posted 12-05-2010 9:12 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 119 by bluegenes, posted 12-05-2010 9:28 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 120 by frako, posted 12-05-2010 9:49 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10188
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 114 of 160 (594768)
12-05-2010 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 8:20 AM


Re: Bolder is a Liar
Bolder writes:

Straggler writes:

Whether you think life originated naturally, supernaturally or however else why would you think it limited just to this planet?

That's the reason that so many evolutionists would choose to believe there is life on other planets, but be almost rabidly adamant that there is no God?

How does that answer the question?

Whether life on Earth arose as the result of naturalistic abiogenesis, advanced aliens conducting experiments or supernatural beings providing the "spark of creation" - Why would we expect this process to be limited to this one little planet?

Bolder writes:

Sort of makes your claim of being rationally objective kind of weak doesn't it?

I'm not sure what you are referring to?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 8:20 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 115 of 160 (594769)
12-05-2010 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 8:20 AM


Title Removed
Content hidden. --Admin

Original title: Bolder May Be a Lying Pedophile

Dear Sir You Cur,

I am sure this applies to any life on any other planet.

One can sense a kind of sick excitement in your posts. Do you masturbate while you post? Do you spy on your kids' friends through a bathroom peephole?

That's the kind of behavior I've come to expect from male Christians, by far the largest sex crime faction in U.S. prisons. The tenor of your posts, and your declarations of belief, lead me to think it probable that you are like them.

Could you explain why you believe in a sex crime cult while claiming to be a spiritual person?

Edited by Admin, : Hide content.


Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio

Real things always push back.
-William James


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 8:20 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Admin, posted 12-05-2010 8:45 AM Omnivorous has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12389
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 116 of 160 (594770)
12-05-2010 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Omnivorous
12-05-2010 8:37 AM


Omnivorous Suspended 24 Hours
Hi Omnivorous,

I'm guessing that this is an attempt to parody Bolder-dash's logic, but this is probably not a good way to go about. No hard feelings, but see you tomorrow.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Omnivorous, posted 12-05-2010 8:37 AM Omnivorous has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 12:19 PM Admin has responded

    
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 2063 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


(2)
Message 117 of 160 (594771)
12-05-2010 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 5:00 AM


Directly redox
Do you believe in life on other planets, even without evidence, because I think that is a hypocritical intellectual position?

I'd hope not.

It's possible I'd believe it based on the assessment of others whom I trust without ever having thought about it personally. There are many things that I believe based on that. I believe that the Empire State Building is on Fifth Avenue based on a wiki page I read this morning, but I've never been there to see it for myself. And it's not like wiki even attempted to offer any argument to support its contention. I just blindly followed along.

But as there is evidence for life on other worlds that answer would be speculation. And knowing how you feel about speculation I was a bit hesitant to offer it.

Well, looky there… a different question… a different answer. How'd that happen?

It's possible that different questions mean different things. But that's speculation again. I've over looked the possibility that a question may be a rhetorical devise to guide others towards an intended goal, a la, Socrates, instead of a direct attempt at discovery.

There is a story about Socrates and a slave boy. Socrates is asking the boy a series of questions with the intent of establishing that even the simplest of minds held knowledge of the deepest workings of the Universe. His quiz was geometry based, and he asked the boy "… do you think we will have a square that is eight feet?" the boy said, "You mean like a spider?"

"No, not like a spider. Eight feet to a side."

"A spider eight feet to a side. There is no such thing: is there?"

"Of course there are no spiders eight feet to a side. I was asking about squares."

"But a square has four sides. And now that I think about it, spiders don't even have feet, they have tarsi."

"Tarsi is just another name for foot."

"Why do you keep going on about spider?"

"You're the one on spiders."

"I'm not on a spider."

"Okay already. What were we talking about?"

"I forget."

"Me too."

"Can we go get a sandwich?"

"That's not one of those rhetorical questions is it?"

"Was that?"

"Was what?"

"Your original question about us believing about life on other planets."

"Did I ask that?"

"Yes, you did. But after you got answers you went off on a tangent about Crashfrog lying about giant spiders. So, what is your interest about us believing in life on other planets?"

"What about the sandwich?"

Edited by lyx2no, : "Giant" spiders.


Be still, the demands I make upon your conscience are slight. It is only your flattery I seek, not your sincerity.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 5:00 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28422
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 118 of 160 (594772)
12-05-2010 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 8:20 AM


Topic and try honesty.
Bolder-dash writes:

Straggler writes:

We know as an indisputable fact that life exists on this planet. We also know that there are a vast number of planets out there.

Whether you think life originated naturally, supernaturally or however else why would you think it limited just to this planet?

That's the reason that so many evolutionists would choose to believe there is life on other planets, but be almost rabidly adamant that there is no God?

Sort of makes your claim of being rationally objective kind of weak doesn't it?

God is irrelevant to the topic, unimportant and of no consequence.

In addition, you have not shown that anyone here much less "so many" choose to believe there is life on other planets or that evolutionists are "almost rabidly adamant that there is no God".

Do you ever plan on addressing the topic which is "Life on other Planets" in case you forgot.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 8:20 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
bluegenes
Member
Posts: 2962
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


(1)
Message 119 of 160 (594779)
12-05-2010 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 8:20 AM


Help with the thinking.
Try to think of the question in terms of other examples. When the first planet outside this solar system was identified by the observed wobble on a star, it was an exciting moment for astronomers, but scientists were not surprised by the find.

Why? Firstly, because there are 8 planets orbiting this star, it was hardly surprising that other stars would have satellites; and secondly, because what they had figured out about star formation by that time also indicated that many solar systems should have formed in a similar way to this one.

Now, ask yourself whether you would expect there to be other moons in other solar systems. As there are many in this one, the answer should be "yes", but we have no means yet of confirming that.

With life, the main difference is that we have only one known example of a life system, rather than 8 (with the planets) and many (with the moons). However, when we combine the one example with the enormous scale of the known universe, it's hardly surprising that most people on this thread are giving a tentative "yes" answer to the question in your thread title. More precisely, they're saying they don't know, but they think it more likely than not.

The main question for many is not so much whether or not there would be some kind of life elsewhere, but how common it might be. For assessments on this, we can only rely on what we currently know about the relevant chemistry and the likely frequency of planets/moons of a type that might support it. The incomplete knowledge in these areas means experts will vary considerably in their estimates.

There's no point in comparing this question to beliefs about gods. It would only be analogous if we knew of the existence of one god, and were speculating on the existence of others.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 8:20 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2675
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 120 of 160 (594781)
12-05-2010 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Bolder-dash
12-05-2010 8:20 AM


Re: Bolder is a Liar
do you actualy read any replies or do you yust rant and rant whatever comes to mind.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-05-2010 8:20 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

    
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