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Author Topic:   Have complex human-made things been designed?
Teapots&unicorns
Member (Idle past 4888 days)
Posts: 178
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 62 of 85 (513329)
06-27-2009 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by mike the wiz
06-17-2009 6:41 AM


Hi all. I'd like to step in at this point.
All that matters to me is that "if there was no human involvement, then there would be no windows XP".
In this universe, your claim is absolutely true. However, this depends on the universe having the exact same physical laws as now. If the 4 main forces had been any different, reality might be hugely different. I've read somewhere that if the parameters were changed, the universe might be made up of numbers and the dominant species would be self-generating algebraic equations.
By the way, have you heard of the Ultimate Boeing 747 Gambit?
Dawkins' name for the statistical demonstration that God almost certainly does not exist is the Ultimate Boeing 747 gambit. This is an allusion to Hoyle's fallacy. Fred Hoyle reportedly stated that the "probability of life originating on Earth is no greater than the chance that a hurricane, sweeping through a scrapyard, would have the luck to assemble a Boeing 747."[2] The basic argument against empirical theism dates back at least to David Hume, whose objection can be popularly stated as "Who designed the designer?", but according to Daniel Dennett the innovation of Dawkins' argument is, first, to show that where design fails to explain complexity, evolution by natural selection succeeds and is the only workable solution, and, second, to argue how this should illuminate the confusion surrounding the anthropic principle.[3]
Ultimate Boeing 747 gambit - Wikipedia
But logically, ultimately, you do not get anything at all without the intelligence-factor.
I would like to point out that this is the perception that there is a staunch difference between life and inanimateness (yes, it is now a word), as well as a difference between intelligence and...well...lack of intelligence. The truth is: there isn't. All things are made up of certain chemicals and reactions and life just takes it one step further. As for intelligence, all animals, not just humans, have brains and some like monkeys or dolphins can find patterns or use of cognitive thinking. In addition, plants, fungi, protists and bacteria have the ability to reproduce and use food, so that is at least some form of unconscious action.
Please define what you think "intelligence" is.

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- Stephen Roberts
I'm a polyatheist - there are many gods I don't believe in
- Dan Foutes
"In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has widely been considered as a bad move."
- Douglas Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by mike the wiz, posted 06-17-2009 6:41 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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