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Author Topic:   Politicizing the AZ massacre
Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 6 of 185 (600200)
01-13-2011 11:27 AM


The first thing that Sarah Palin did after the tragedy was to scrub her Tweets and websites. That says a lot.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 12 of 185 (600218)
01-13-2011 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Rahvin
01-13-2011 12:01 PM


But when you put "innocent" imagery like Palins together with blatantly not innocent things liek "second amendment solutions" and "watering the tree of liberty with blood," what do you think is going to be the image created in someone's mind?
They knew what was in the pot when they were stirring. Palin and others knew that there was a militia-like streak running through the Tea Party, and they played to it. I remember Tea Party sympathizers showing up to Obama rallies openly carrying fire arms and holding signs with overtly violent themes. I remember signs at Health Care protests with the line "Kill the Bill" above a picture of Obama climbing into a coffin.
You reap what you sow. The rooster has come home to roost. Pick your cliche, but I, like you, felt this coming.

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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 16 of 185 (600227)
01-13-2011 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Hyroglyphx
01-13-2011 12:32 PM


Well, no kidding. I'm not defending Palin, she's an idiot. But the point I'm trying to make it that, even in light of her idiocy, it's really silly to try and draw parallels instead of placing the blame on, you know, the killer.
What we can do is point out that the Tea Party created an atmosphere where nutjobs like Loughner would feel justified in taking this type of action.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 21 of 185 (600232)
01-13-2011 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by New Cat's Eye
01-13-2011 12:47 PM


I haven't read much about this incident.
Do they have any ideas why he did it? Because of her stance on healthcare, or immigration or something?
I have speculations, but that is it. It is worth mentioning that Giffords did beat a Tea Party candidate in the last election. It is also worth mentioning that Loughner could have been a complete nutcase trying to impress Jodie Foster. However, given the strained political environment in the US right now I tend to suspect a political motivation.

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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 22 of 185 (600235)
01-13-2011 1:22 PM


We all know that we can't get through this thread without a Michael Moore quote, so here it is:
"If a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web with crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he be sitting right now? Just asking." - Michael Moore

  
Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 30 of 185 (600247)
01-13-2011 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by New Cat's Eye
01-13-2011 2:38 PM


He shot a member of Congress... of course it was a political motivation
Brinkley was not politically motivated when he shot Reagan. Brinkley was motivated by his infatuation with Jodie Foster. He thought shooting Reagan would endear her to him.
I was more or less hedging my bet in case Loughner turns out to be completely psychotic.

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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 33 of 185 (600253)
01-13-2011 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
01-13-2011 3:18 PM


Re: Palin is an idiot, but....
And your opinion on all the death threads Palin is now getting because of the lefties and their lies?
When lefties show up to Palin rallies packing heat in order to intimidate Palin and her followers let us know.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 36 of 185 (600258)
01-13-2011 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by New Cat's Eye
01-13-2011 3:41 PM


Looks like he lost his mind during the same time he became more interested in politics.
I doubt Palin's "Crosshair" map had anything to do with this guy and his motivations at all.
I am more curious about how he was affected by the overtly violent rhetoric that the Tea Party was putting out. Perhaps he wasn't affected at all, I don't know. However, it is still irresponsible to push a political agenda with threats of violence. Hopefully, this is a wake up call for the Tea Party.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 42 of 185 (600283)
01-13-2011 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by New Cat's Eye
01-13-2011 5:47 PM


Why are we all assuming that he was right-wing and listened to the Tea Party?
For the same reasons that Palin assumed it, which is why she sterilized her tweets and websites. It's a rather obvious connection.

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 Message 65 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-14-2011 10:50 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 68 of 185 (600398)
01-14-2011 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Hyroglyphx
01-14-2011 9:59 AM


Re: Palin is an idiot, but....
Nonsense. So, on top of it all, you want to restrict free speech?
Are people not responsible for what comes out of their mouth?

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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 69 of 185 (600400)
01-14-2011 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by New Cat's Eye
01-14-2011 10:50 AM


What do you know about Loughlin that makes it so obvious?
The obviousness of the connection is the circumstance. A Democrat, who happened to be the focus of the Tea Party, beats out her Tea Party opponent and is then gunned down. The first conclusion you jump to is that the gunman is probably a Tea Party sympathizer who is obviously nucking futs. That initial conclusion may very well be wrong, but it is the obvious conclusion that everyone is starting from.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 70 of 185 (600401)
01-14-2011 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Coyote
01-14-2011 10:36 AM


Re: Media blew it (again)
And all the crying about crosshairs on a map. (Those crosshairs look more like surveyors' crosshairs than those in a rifle scope.)
It needs to be put in context. The heading at the top also talks about "Prescribing the solution", and then we see crosshairs on certain spots on the map, and all of this on the website of a self described gun enthusiast. I think we can all agree that it is in poor taste, at best.
The left put out pictures of Bush with crosshairs superimposed a few years back.
Which is very irresponsible. Who did this, out of curiosity?

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 80 of 185 (600441)
01-14-2011 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by onifre
01-14-2011 1:13 PM


No one should jump to such a conclusion.
But they do jump to conclusions. The media should not base their reports on such speculations, but the general population will jump to this conclusion unless evidence shows it otherwise.
Obama called for an "end to the sharply polarised debate that has consumed America," and yet these accusations toward Palin are doing just that, causing everyone to once again turn on each other.
What I am talking about falls short of accusation. I am talking about the first gut reaction to the news. If it turns out to be wrong then it is wrong.
To use an analogy, whenever a woman is murdered they usually focus on the husband/boyfriend first. That is their gut reaction to the crime. If evidence quickly exonerates the husband/boyfriend then they swiftly move on. This is the type of reaction I am talking about.

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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 81 of 185 (600443)
01-14-2011 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Hyroglyphx
01-14-2011 12:28 PM


Re: Palin is an idiot, but....
As with anything else on planet earth, violent people can be found anywhere and in any group.
Which is why ALL political leaders need to be very careful with the language they use. The last thing you want to do (at least in American politics) is to make violent people feel justified in using violence. When you put crosshairs on a map and tell people to "Prescribe the solution" that is irresponsible whether or not this most recent attack is due to this piece of literature.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 83 of 185 (600447)
01-14-2011 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by onifre
01-14-2011 1:46 PM


Without the media broadcasting the speculations about Palin, would people really have remembered a 5 second comment about consequences given 9 months ago by the congress woman? I didn't remember it at all. To be honest, I didn't know she had said it orignially, I heard about it through the media recently.
The general public may have speculated that it was in some way instigated by Tea Party rhetoric, on that I can agree. But to specifically call out Palin and those "targets" on the map is something very few, if anyone, would have tried to correlate. If only because no one would have remembered.
It was irresponsible for the media to play the speculation game. Unfortunately, the news media competes for viewers through sensationalism. I wish it were different, but that is the state of affairs. The line between reporting and punditry has blurred quite a bit.
The crosshair map is serving more as a Rosetta stone, IMO. If people deny that there has been violent rhetoric within the Tea Party then all you need to do is point to this map that was produced by one of it's prominent members. As an aside, I do remember this map when it was first being used and had the same reaction to it now that I had then.
Yes but they don't blast it through the media that the husband or boyfriend may have done it unless evidence points to that.
However, they will report that the husband is being questioned and play video of the husband being brought in for questioning. They will use a lot of "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" type language to insinuate the husband in the murder without actually saying it. The media company that doesn't do this will lose viewership, at least in the mind of the media company.

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