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Author Topic:   All Human Beings Are Descendants of Adam
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1229 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 106 of 118 (694893)
03-30-2013 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Admin
03-18-2013 2:20 PM


Re: All Human Beings Are Descendants of Adam
Hey, Mr Percy, is there a superior to whom I might appeal your obvious erroneous and consistent objection to things I post?

You conplaint here shows you are a hypocritical moderator unable to fairly appraise the objectivity of what i post, and are bias as illustrated here, wherein I posted, above, a recent Science publication that supports the religious position that all humans today have one common ancestor they call Adam?

After all the Thread Opening Post Title is "All Human Beings Are Descendants of Adam."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Admin, posted 03-18-2013 2:20 PM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Admin, posted 03-30-2013 2:31 PM kofh2u has responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1229 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 107 of 118 (694894)
03-30-2013 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Europa
02-25-2011 2:56 AM


... tell this Percy...

I may be wrong but my understanding of evolution does not contradict the statement: "All human beings are descendants of Adam."
I shall explain why.
Evolutionists state that we are descendants of an ape-like ancestor. To further strengthen this, they claim that the chimps and human beings share a common ancestor. I will not go into the details of explicit calims like the DNA of human beings are 99 percent similar to that of the chimps. But I am not saying that any of this is wrong.

Having said that, we also have done some tests, because of which we have found out that the existing population of the world are all decendants of a single human being -- the Mitochondrial Eve (ME). I am not saying that the ME is the real Eve (of the Bible). Nor am I denying that at this point. I just do not know.

The common explanation of the ME is that the human population faced a bottleneck sometime in the past. And it is because of this bottle-necking that we have the ME. That is fine. I do not disagree with this either.

What I am saying is that because we have something (or should I say someone?) like the ME, the statement: 'All human beings are descendants of Adam' is not false. Coming to think of it, it would be so difficult to argue in support of my statement if we do not have the ME.

Now, many will not agree with my statement. But that is a different issue for i am not arguing to prove my statement. Nevertheless, evolution does not contradict my statement.
Am I wrong?

I would like some insight into this and will appreciate all answers.
Thanks.

Edited by AdminPD, 02-25-2011 5:54 AM: Title Change

ABSOLUTELY WHAT I STATED ABOVE.

I produced a text by well known and resected Paleontologists, and showed a one-to-one correspondence with the genealogy in Genesis and the 22 now extict humans in the line of human acent.

But, Percy wants to censor any objective and concrete point that opposes his bible bashing standards.

The Adminstrator who approved this thread needs to step in and censor the bible believers like me, or Mr Percy, IMHO.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Europa, posted 02-25-2011 2:56 AM Europa has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Coyote, posted 03-30-2013 1:51 PM kofh2u has responded
 Message 109 by NoNukes, posted 03-30-2013 1:51 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5783
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 108 of 118 (694895)
03-30-2013 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by kofh2u
03-30-2013 1:43 PM


Re: ... tell this Percy...
I produced a text by well known and resected Paleontologists, and showed a one-to-one correspondence with the genealogy in Genesis and the 22 now extict humans in the line of human acent.

And numerous posters have shown that your "one-to-one correspondence" is absolutely wrong.

But in spite of this, you keep repeating your same erroneous claims.

You're not debating, you're preaching! And you're doing it in the Science Forum.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by kofh2u, posted 03-30-2013 1:43 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by kofh2u, posted 09-07-2013 5:04 PM Coyote has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9537
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 109 of 118 (694896)
03-30-2013 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by kofh2u
03-30-2013 1:43 PM


Re: ... tell this Percy...
I produced a text by well known and resected Paleontologists, and showed a one-to-one correspondence with the genealogy in Genesis and the 22 now extict humans in the line of human acent.

Actually you did no such thing.

In fact you bailed out of the thread Admin provided for you to make this demonstration once too many issues were raised.

You probably won't find it productive to either continue to raise this issue or to complain about not being allowed to raise the issue in this thread, particularly after a you've received a warning not to do either of those things.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by kofh2u, posted 03-30-2013 1:43 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12503
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 110 of 118 (694903)
03-30-2013 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by kofh2u
03-30-2013 1:38 PM


Re: All Human Beings Are Descendants of Adam
Hi Kofh2u,

No, there is no higher appeal. I am not only the lead moderator, I am also the webmaster, I wrote the discussion board software, and I pay for the server.

I've already ruled "22 species from Adam to us" off-topic in this thread. You already have a thread for that topic: Kof2hu's 22 species corresponding to Genesis thread

If you post about that topic again to any other thread than that one then I will issue you a temporary suspension. I'll give you a pass on your Message 107, but that's it.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by kofh2u, posted 03-30-2013 1:38 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by kofh2u, posted 08-24-2013 8:05 PM Admin has responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1229 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 111 of 118 (705217)
08-24-2013 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Admin
03-30-2013 2:31 PM


Re: All Human Beings Are Descendants of Adam
In regard to "Re: All Human Beings Are Descendants of Adam" can I say that there is the latest book available from paleontologists who list 22 now extinct species from Adam to through the initial three racial stocks which have now differentiated into seven different races?

Can I tell people here that genetic evidence that supports an Act-of-God by which the mutation inside the womb of a surrogate Ape mother with 24 Chromosome were fused together, by which the first "Adam" with only 23 Chromosomes suddenly appeared on earth 7 million year ago?

Those things all seem relevant, science based, and supportive of the genealogy in Genesis.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Admin, posted 03-30-2013 2:31 PM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Admin, posted 09-08-2013 7:33 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1263
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 112 of 118 (705330)
08-26-2013 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Dr Jack
02-25-2011 9:55 AM


A very, very old Y-chromosome Adam.
One thing that would indicate that our methods are fundamentally flawed is if YcA and ME came out as living at the same time or if YcA lived before ME.

I know I'm replying to something posted over three years ago, but I only just read it since this thread's been bumped, and felt obliged to plow in.

Calculations showing that Y-chromosonal Adam lived before Mitochondrial Eve would not indicate any fatal flaw in the methods. It may be more a priori likely for Mitochondrial Eve to be older, for the simple reason that successful males can have a lot more offspring than successful females. It's not, however, a definite fact.

And based on the information we currently have, it seems that it's not true. Y-chromosonal Adam is substantially older than mitochondrial Eve. I'm surprised how little coverage this story has gotten, but a wildly divergent Y-chromosone lineage has been discovered by commerical DNA sampling, and further investigation has found it present at a low frequency amongst African American and West African men. This lineage is estimated to have split from other known lineages more than 300,000 years ago. Y-chromosone Adam, it seems, was not an anatomically modern human.

It's been suggested this could be the result of introgressive hybridisation with another species of human in West African prehistory, just as seems to have happened with Neanderthals and Denisovans outside Africa. The difference is that this particular hybridisation event has resulted in strict patrilineal descendants still living today.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Dr Jack, posted 02-25-2011 9:55 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by kofh2u, posted 08-26-2013 12:47 PM caffeine has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1229 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 113 of 118 (705355)
08-26-2013 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by caffeine
08-26-2013 9:45 AM


Re: A very, very old Y-chromosome Adam.
A recent report in US NEWS magazine referred to this as Y-chromosomal Adam, but the scientist had less knowledge of Genesis than would have useful in connecting this to Noah, instead.

According to Genesis, Noah is responsible for the evolution of the appearance of three racial stocks, (Caucasian, Negroid, and mongoloid) from which the present seven genetic evidence races of today had differentiated.

According to the story, Noah, (assumed to be a species), sired these three hybrids when he was 500,000 years old.
The "flood" (out-of-Africa) took place 100,000 years After that event, and lasted for 40,000 years.

From this point of view, the numbers and the genetics fit quite well.
And, Mito-Eve would fit in as Mito-Noah's wife.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by caffeine, posted 08-26-2013 9:45 AM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by caffeine, posted 08-27-2013 4:02 AM kofh2u has responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1263
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 114 of 118 (705434)
08-27-2013 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by kofh2u
08-26-2013 12:47 PM


Re: A very, very old Y-chromosome Adam.
A recent report in US NEWS magazine referred to this as Y-chromosomal Adam, but the scientist had less knowledge of Genesis than would have useful in connecting this to Noah, instead.

Knowledge of Genesis would have served no use, since this has nothing to do with the Bible. The name 'Adam' was inspired by the Bible because of the Bible's huge literary influence on our culture. This concept has no more connection to the Biblical Adam than a football team would have to kings of Israel if someone described an unequal match as 'pitting David against Goliath'.

Given the amount of confusion it seems to have provoked, clearly 'Y-chromosome Adam' was a really bad choice of words.

Y-chromosome Adam is simply the last common patrilineal ancestor of all living humans. So if you count your way back through everyone's father's father's father's father's father's...... and keep going until they all meet - that's Y-chromosome Adam.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by kofh2u, posted 08-26-2013 12:47 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by kofh2u, posted 09-07-2013 5:11 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1229 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 115 of 118 (706193)
09-07-2013 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Coyote
03-30-2013 1:51 PM


Re: ... tell this Percy...

I produced a text by well known and resected Paleontologists, and showed a one-to-one correspondence with the genealogy in Genesis and the 22 now extict humans in the line of human acent.

And numerous posters have shown that your "one-to-one correspondence" is absolutely wrong.

But in spite of this, you keep repeating your same erroneous claims.

You're not debating, you're preaching! And you're doing it in the Science Forum.

LOL

Whether you say its wrong or not, I sources the "well known and respected paleontologists" who published the most recent book on the matter, the VERY title of which screams out the it lists the "Now 22 extinct species of humans."

Does this even matter to you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Coyote, posted 03-30-2013 1:51 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Coyote, posted 09-07-2013 7:11 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1229 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 116 of 118 (706194)
09-07-2013 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by caffeine
08-27-2013 4:02 AM


Re: A very, very old Y-chromosome Adam.

kofh2u:

A recent report in US NEWS magazine referred to this as Y-chromosomal Adam, but the scientist had less knowledge of Genesis than would have useful in connecting this to Noah, instead.

caffine:
Knowledge of Genesis would have served no use, since this has nothing to do with the Bible. The name 'Adam' was inspired by the Bible because of the Bible's huge literary influence on our culture.

That is exactly WHY I suggest that they should have referred to the name 'Noah' since this would be consistent with the date of the Flood and the appearance of this common ancestor.

That Adam was inspired by the Bible because of the Bible's huge literary influence on our culture is hardly the point when the Noah correlation makes more sense here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by caffeine, posted 08-27-2013 4:02 AM caffeine has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5783
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 117 of 118 (706198)
09-07-2013 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by kofh2u
09-07-2013 5:04 PM


Re: ... tell this Percy...
I posted:

coyote writes:

...numerous posters have shown that your "one-to-one correspondence" is absolutely wrong.

But in spite of this, you keep repeating your same erroneous claims.

And so you respond with:

kofh2u writes:

...I sources the "well known and respected paleontologists" who published the most recent book on the matter, the VERY title of which screams out the it lists the "Now 22 extinct species of humans."

Once again you make the same erroneous claims without demonstrating any "one-to-one correspondence."

You're not debating, you're preaching!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by kofh2u, posted 09-07-2013 5:04 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12503
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 118 of 118 (706212)
09-08-2013 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by kofh2u
08-24-2013 8:05 PM


Re: All Human Beings Are Descendants of Adam
Hi Kofh2u,

Back in March in Message 110 I told you that "22 species from Adam to us" was off-topic in this thread and that you would be suspended if you posted here on that topic again.

Now, five months later, you have posted about "22 species from Adam to us". Rather than suspending you I am removing your posting permissions in this forum, the Creation/Evolution Miscellany forum.

You have your own thread for discussing this topic: Kof2hu's 22 species corresponding to Genesis thread. Please take your discussion about this topic there.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by kofh2u, posted 08-24-2013 8:05 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
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