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Author Topic:   Is the evolution of modern man going to stop
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 31 of 107 (630421)
08-25-2011 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 4:54 AM


There's no reality behind adaptive radiation; this is just a neo doctored premise given to the variety of life forms., and disregards the directive program transmission. Why do you not see this happening everywhere now!? AR is calling all the different cars as externally created, while ignoring the car manual, car factory and the car maker.

I gave you many mathematical premises you choose to disregard.

You had a brief flash of being wrong yet coherent; now you are being wrong and incoherent.

I should have known better than to try to talk to you, but for a brief moment it seemed as though you were actually saying something.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 4:54 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 5:22 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1227 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 32 of 107 (630422)
08-25-2011 5:22 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Dr Adequate
08-25-2011 5:19 AM


That's a coherent non-response. As in incoherent ignore mode of the most primal factor in repro: the seed.

Is speech determined by eons of years of NS - or a specificity of what is transmitted by the host to the offspring?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-25-2011 5:19 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-25-2011 6:49 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

    
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 1654 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 33 of 107 (630424)
08-25-2011 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 5:02 AM


When will you guys get to the part what role a host tranmittance to the offspring plays - remember that teeny weeny factor!?

Maybe when you can coherently explain just what the hell you are talking about? Those of us in touch with reality know what it is that is transmitted between parents and offspring, it is principally genetic material in the form of DNA along with a few proteins and some organelles.

We also know that this genetic material is subject to changes and that such changes can have effects on morphology, cognition, speech, behaviour and a host of other factors.

Just putting your fingers in your ears and going 'La, la, la! Nothing changes' doesn't make it true.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 5:02 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 6:18 AM Wounded King has responded

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1227 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 34 of 107 (630425)
08-25-2011 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Wounded King
08-25-2011 5:38 AM


quote:
Maybe when you can coherently explain just what the hell you are talking about? Those of us in touch with reality know what it is that is transmitted between parents and offspring, it is principally genetic material in the form of DNA along with a few proteins and some organelles.

The mysterious word is translated as the 'seed', referring to a core essence embodying al the make-up in the male/female duality. This is the earliest, first recording of an embryotic science, which cannot be better said considering the then limitations of words.

You say this seed is genetic material. I say this genetic configuration is better described as a code of a directive program, which contains all the data required in determining the offspring, to the extent it leaves no margin of play for any other factors as impacting. It aligns perfectly with a seed following its own kind - as in a chip in your mobile. Specifically then, what other factors are you saying impacts the offsrping, noting you have not even given the seed even cursory relevance till I pushed you there?

quote:

We also know that this genetic material is subject to changes and that such changes can have effects on morphology, cognition, speech, behaviour and a host of other factors.


And specifically what are you saying causes these changes - the wind carrying bundles of data - the sun mixed with blue light - jitterbugging quarks randomly banging together? You have not clarified at all in any semblance of science compared to the transmitted data criteria.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Wounded King, posted 08-25-2011 5:38 AM Wounded King has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Larni, posted 08-25-2011 6:55 AM IamJoseph has responded
 Message 37 by Wounded King, posted 08-25-2011 6:58 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 35 of 107 (630427)
08-25-2011 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 5:22 AM


That's a coherent non-response. As in incoherent ignore mode of the most primal factor in repro: the seed.

Is speech determined by eons of years of NS - or a specificity of what is transmitted by the host to the offspring?

This does not mean anything.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 5:22 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3951
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 36 of 107 (630428)
08-25-2011 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 6:18 AM


You seem to be confusing inheritance with some pseudo scientologist ideas of our self as pre packaged discrete entity that is somehow divorced from the material of our bodies.

As best as I can make out.

Would you mind using normal English? For example: does repro mean reproduction? It would make things a lot less painful to read you post if you used proper English.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 6:18 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 7:01 AM Larni has responded

    
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 1654 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 37 of 107 (630429)
08-25-2011 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 6:18 AM


What the asterisk?
Wow, well done IAJ, you have transcended your usual level of incomprehensible gibberish to reach new heights of impenetrable jibber-jabber.

What you seem to be saying is that you don't have a clue about genetics and presumably, since you have been on this board for more than 4 years, you don't care to learn about it either since it is one of the most frequently discussed topics in the science forums.

I say this genetic configuration is better described as a code of a directive program, which contains all the data required in determining the offspring, to the extent it leaves no margin of play for any other factors as impacting.

Well, again, reality disagrees with you. There are a number of environmental factors from temperature to pH to the presence of particular vitamins or other chemicals that can affect an organism's development and its eventual phenotype, so in fact the margins of play you declare cannot exist do exist.

These environmental effects are distinct from the changes in the heritable material. Changes in the genetic material are what are termed mutations. There are multiple causes for such mutations, some environmental and some simply due to imperfections in the replication process when DNA is copied during meiosis or mitosis.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 6:18 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1227 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 38 of 107 (630430)
08-25-2011 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Larni
08-25-2011 6:55 AM


Quit the naive deflection mode. I already explained what a seed refers to - the word species cannot apply with an ancient time's writings and it cannot have any other meaning in the provided context.

I also asked what factors outside the seed applies which evolutionists seem to always refer to: what specifically causes changes other than a program in the seed [aka genes; dna]?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Larni, posted 08-25-2011 6:55 AM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Larni, posted 08-25-2011 7:56 AM IamJoseph has responded
 Message 41 by fearandloathing, posted 08-25-2011 8:54 AM IamJoseph has responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3951
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 39 of 107 (630436)
08-25-2011 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 7:01 AM


I get it now. You use these imprecise words such as 'seed' so that (in your head) you are 'aligning' what the bible says with our current scientific understanding.

When we talk about chromosomes and dna and genes and so on and so forth you can justifiably (in your head) say:

"Ah, but see. It was written in the bible. Chromosomes and dna and genes and so on and so forth were written about in the bible but they used the word 'seed'. And so, let it be shall."

That's why you keep busting into threads and basically saying the same thing. Why don't you put the following in your sig:

"I beleive the bible is the foundation for modern science"

Then you would not have to write anything else at all and, potentially interesting threads like these could live up to their potential.

As an aside, you do know that in some reptiles temperature determins the sex of the off spring, rather than the 'seed'?

That's a pretty clear cut example of an external effect other than the 'seed'.

Rebuttal?

Edited by Larni, : Bit of clarity


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 7:01 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 8:25 AM Larni has responded

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1227 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 40 of 107 (630439)
08-25-2011 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Larni
08-25-2011 7:56 AM


quote:
I get it now. You use these imprecise words such as 'seed' so that (in your head) you are 'aligning' what the bible says with our current scientific understanding.
When we talk about chromosomes and dna and genes and so on and so forth you can justifiably (in your head) say:

"Ah, but see. It was written in the bible. Chromosomes and dna and genes and so on and so forth were written about in the bible but they used the word 'seed'. And so, let it be shall."

That's why you keep busting into threads and basically saying the same thing. Why don't you put the following in your sig:

"I beleive the bible is the foundation for modern science"

Then you would not have to write anything else at all and, potentially interesting threads like these could live up to their potential.

That's a pretty


Its not mine nor any unprecise words. There is no other reading to a seed acting as a chip in your mobile. Whatever do you think this precisely means:

quote:

12 And the earth brought forth grass, herb yielding seed after its kind, and tree bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after its kind.

The seed factor is used for all other life forms:

the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that creepeth, wherewith the waters swarmed, after its kind, and every winged fowl after its kind.


Substitute genes or chip for seed and there is no difference in its meaning from today's science. To me this is 100% a vindicated scientific description, al beit stated in ancient terms, and the first recording of a depiction away from the occultism of ancient times. Today we know that the dna is a code, each component gene representing different processes in a life form, aligning directly with the species and particular individual. We do not look to temperatures and windflow to establish a life form.

quote:
As an aside, you do know that in some reptiles temperature determins the sex of the off spring, rather than the 'seed'?

You read something, say AAH and swallow - without ever questioning it. Snake sex is NOT determined by external temperatures - the seed factor does this. The offspring may adjust its sex before its sex is determined; many life forms do this. It cannot perform this trick without the seed's directive program allowing it to do so: the factor you obviously never considered!

Real science demands honesty.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Larni, posted 08-25-2011 7:56 AM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Larni, posted 08-25-2011 10:53 AM IamJoseph has responded

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 1704 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 41 of 107 (630442)
08-25-2011 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 7:01 AM


I also asked what factors outside the seed applies which evolutionists seem to always refer to: what specifically causes changes other than a program in the seed [aka genes; dna]?

What about other environmental factors such as exposure to lead or mercury, or a mothers use of alcohol? Is there some subroutine in the seeds program that says if exposed to high levels of X then the offspring will turn out like this instead of that?


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 7:01 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 8:24 PM fearandloathing has not yet responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3951
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 42 of 107 (630451)
08-25-2011 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 8:25 AM


Substitute genes or chip for seed and there is no difference in its meaning from today's science. To me this is 100% a vindicated scientific description, al beit stated in ancient terms, and the first recording of a depiction away from the occultism of ancient times.

So my supposition that you are trying to lump genes, chromosomes and so on and so forth in the word 'seed' so it fits in with your bible was correct.

We do not look to temperatures and windflow to establish a life form.

But we do know for sure that crocodile sex is not down to the 'seed'.

Crocodile embryos do not have sex chromosomes, and unlike humans sex is not determined genetically. Sex is determined by temperature,....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile#Biology_and_behaviour

So you see, you are totally wrong when you say:

I say this genetic configuration is better described as a code of a directive program, which contains all the data required in determining the offspring, to the extent it leaves no margin of play for any other factors as impacting.

Any other factors. That would include temperature.

Can't be put any clearer than that.

You say it is the 'seed' alone; but a quick check of reality and you are shown to be very wrong.

Now can we get back to the topic?

Edited by Larni, : last line


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 8:25 AM IamJoseph has responded

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Tanus
Junior Member (Idle past 2149 days)
Posts: 17
Joined: 08-25-2011


Message 43 of 107 (630460)
08-25-2011 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Larni
08-25-2011 4:46 AM


There is a general rule (with definite exceptions) that as humans become wealthier and more educated, they have fewer children. Europe and the US would be below replacement level if there were no immigration. The traits that lead to an educated population have components that are selected against. The fact is that evolution and genetics are complex and still not all that well understood.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Larni, posted 08-25-2011 4:46 AM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Larni, posted 08-25-2011 2:19 PM Tanus has responded

    
Tanus
Junior Member (Idle past 2149 days)
Posts: 17
Joined: 08-25-2011


Message 44 of 107 (630462)
08-25-2011 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dr Adequate
08-25-2011 4:15 AM


Is it really fair to ask for math? I have written a number of technical papers and I am published in technical journals so I sadly know the work involved in modeling. While all of us would welcome quantification in a forum like this, it is unrealistic to expect mathematical models in these posts. This sort of writing is about shooting from the hip.

This is not to say that I would not welcome seeing a good spreadsheet or two.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-25-2011 4:15 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Panda, posted 08-25-2011 12:48 PM Tanus has responded
 Message 49 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-25-2011 5:24 PM Tanus has not yet responded

    
Tanus
Junior Member (Idle past 2149 days)
Posts: 17
Joined: 08-25-2011


Message 45 of 107 (630463)
08-25-2011 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Dr Adequate
08-25-2011 4:18 AM


The implication here is that some gene combinations will increase the chances of wealth, while other gene combinations will reduce the chances of wealth.

An organism and a population are a product of genes, culture, environment, and congenital conditions. However, it is fair to say that some genes will impact wealth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-25-2011 4:18 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

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