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Author Topic:   Is the evolution of modern man going to stop
Eli
Member (Idle past 962 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 91 of 107 (678494)
11-08-2012 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by kofh2u
11-08-2012 10:34 AM


Re: mental evolution
Sorry, guy. What you think the collective conscious is has nothing to do with Jung, Freud or evolution.

You are talking about a new wave, metaphysical deviation from what Jung was talking about. It is based on what people who did not understand Jung's concept wanted it to mean rather than what he actually meant.

Jung also never said that collective harmony was an archetype or that it is "all too under expressed."

I doubt you know much of this subject at all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by kofh2u, posted 11-08-2012 10:34 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by kofh2u, posted 11-09-2012 12:35 AM Eli has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 6799
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 92 of 107 (678495)
11-08-2012 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by kofh2u
11-07-2012 2:31 PM


Re: mental evolution
I think the next step for man is a mental evolution.

I disagree. The next big step is Intelligent Design, strangely enough.

Why treat diseases when you can eliminate disease by changing your children's DNA? Want smarter kids? Just tweak a few bases in this or that gene. Want brussel sprouts with more vitamins but not as much of a bitter taste?

The options could be limitless. We are already dabbling in these fields as with GMO foods and humanized mice used in biomedical research. Over the last 30 millenia we have had to wait for nature to produce the variants we wanted, and then we had to carefully breed these species to preserve the traits we wanted. That may be a thing of the past in the not so distant future.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by kofh2u, posted 11-07-2012 2:31 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by kofh2u, posted 11-09-2012 12:54 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1290 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 93 of 107 (678554)
11-09-2012 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Eli
11-08-2012 4:14 PM


Re: mental evolution
Quote:
Sorry, guy. What you think the collective conscious is has nothing to do with Jung, Freud or evolution.
You are talking about a new wave, metaphysical deviation from what Jung was talking about. It is based on what people who did not understand Jung's concept wanted it to mean rather than what he actually meant.

Jung also never said that collective harmony was an archetype or that it is "all too under expressed."

I doubt you know much of this subject at all.

Dave:
I doubt that Jung knew much about what I am saying.

That is immaterial to the fact that he and Freud introduced the rather original observation that, in each birth, the Unconscious mind is "born again," and adds to the already present community of all the other Unconcious minds already present in the existing generation.

I am aware of no "new age" metaphysical deviation from what jung said, but am focused on the fact that he realized a sleeping giant resides in each of us.

That force is one that is dreamily silent as we Consciously interact with our Subconscious impulses and desires, utilizing the powers and skills of the seven Freudian sources of our decision making.

I believe that giant is about to wake up:

Jeremiah 25:30
Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Eli, posted 11-08-2012 4:14 PM Eli has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Eli, posted 11-10-2012 8:24 PM kofh2u has responded
 Message 96 by Eli, posted 11-10-2012 8:25 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1290 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 94 of 107 (678556)
11-09-2012 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Taq
11-08-2012 4:25 PM


Re: mental evolution
Taq:

Why treat diseases when you can eliminate disease by changing your children's DNA? Want smarter kids? Just tweak a few bases in this or that gene. Want brussel sprouts with more vitamins but not as much of a bitter taste?

The options could be limitless. We are already dabbling in these fields as with GMO foods and humanized mice used in biomedical research. Over the last 30 millenia we have had to wait for nature to produce the variants we wanted, and then we had to carefully breed these species to preserve the traits we wanted. That may be a thing of the past in the not so distant future.

dave:

You have a great point.
The present paradigm of the Global Village is founded during this "Age of the Superego."
Science, and academics in general, envisions a technological society which is possible, but without some change in our predictable nd historical behavior, impossible.

What you suggest will come, but only AFTER we enter into an Age of Understanding.

Man does not understand himself, nor his neighbors.
His nation can not co-exist peacefully with other nations.

Technology is actually a threat to further advancement because of its destructive capabilities.

That Age of Harmony is scheduled next.
The collective mentality of those people who are growing in number will swell up as the world gets smaller and smaller.
We have seen evidence of this in the aid to Haiti and SE Asia, and Kitrina, etc.
The ground work has been prepared by both the massive Christian Humanitarism and the unpresidented Militarism that threatens the whole world.

The Age of Understanding is our salvation, and the Lord of that Age is Truth.

31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord.

32 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.

33 And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

34 Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.

35 And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.

36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the Lord hath spoiled their pasture.

37 And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the Lord.

38 He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Taq, posted 11-08-2012 4:25 PM Taq has not yet responded

    
Eli
Member (Idle past 962 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


(1)
Message 95 of 107 (678838)
11-10-2012 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by kofh2u
11-09-2012 12:35 AM


Re: mental evolution
Yeah, I am sure you have no idea of what Jung or Freud taught.

"Subconcious"?

The word is "Unconscious."

and there is no 7 Freudian sources of decision making.

That is something you made up because you are a numerologist focused on the number 7.

Instead of inventing things and attributing them to wrongful sources that have nothing to do with your perceptions, from now on be up front and tell us that these are your ideas.

See, guy, there is a thing called the "internet" that has a sort of engine called "google" that people can utilize to "research" and "fact-check."

There is nothing you can introduce here and claim that it came from Freud or Jung, or Dr. Phil or the Quran or anywhere else if it in truth did not originate with them without being completely pulverized.

If you have something to offer, you do yourself no good service by introducing yourself as a liar, because the good will be tossed out with the bad if you give us constant reason to mistrust you.

Try again. And this time, leave Freud and Jung out of it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by kofh2u, posted 11-09-2012 12:35 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by kofh2u, posted 11-10-2012 9:58 PM Eli has responded

  
Eli
Member (Idle past 962 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 96 of 107 (678839)
11-10-2012 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by kofh2u
11-09-2012 12:35 AM


Re: mental evolution
And my name is not Dave, so please quit addressing me as such.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by kofh2u, posted 11-09-2012 12:35 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1290 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 97 of 107 (678853)
11-10-2012 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Eli
11-10-2012 8:24 PM


Re: mental evolution

Yeah, I am sure you have no idea of what Jung or Freud taught.
"Subconcious"?

The word is "Unconscious."

and there is no 7 Freudian sources of decision making.

That is something you made up because you are a numerologist focused on the number 7.

Yes I am very much interested in pointing out how many things in man's present conception of reality are organized by a pattern which repeatly gathers ideas into numerical groupings, and 7 is one of those organizational patterns.

But that is immaterial to the present discussion.

The actual preferred Freudian term is preconscious, not subconscious.
It refers to the commonly understood archetypes we all refer to now, like our Ego or that magazine called SELF.

But I was talking about the other part of our triade of thinking, the Unconscious mind:

Carl Jung:

The Collective Unconscious is a storehouse of all the experiences of humankind transmitted to each individual.
As the repository for all past experiences, it includes even our pre-human animal ancestry.
(Assumably through the genetic processes, though unknown to Freud and Jung at the time.)

It becomes the primary base of a person's pyche, direc ting and influencing behavior.
It is the deepest and most inaccessable level of the psyche.
Jung believed that a person accumulates and files all of his past experiences, so does humankind, collectively.

Jung was supported by Freud in that Freud predicted our eventual discovery of what he called "Phylogenetic Memory."
Jung said, "the form of the world into which a person is born is already inborn in him, as a virtual image." (Jung, 1953, pg 188).

An example of the meaning of this was suggested in that an infant is born predisposed to perceive the mother in a certain manner.
Assuming that she behaves as we have generally considered mothers should behave, then the babies predisposition will correspond with his reality.
The form of an infant's world, "inborn within him" thus determines how he adapts and reacts to his world."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Eli, posted 11-10-2012 8:24 PM Eli has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Eli, posted 11-10-2012 10:32 PM kofh2u has responded

    
Eli
Member (Idle past 962 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 98 of 107 (678860)
11-10-2012 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by kofh2u
11-10-2012 9:58 PM


Re: mental evolution
I know what Jung said, which makes no reference to a world or shared universal consciousness.

And don't give me a reference to preconsciousness now. It's too late.

You were talking about the unconcious mind which you wrongly called "subconscious."

Any person worth discussing Freudian precepts with will know that, of all words, subconsious is the most improper being how much Freud despised it.

You clearly are not well-versed in these subjects.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by kofh2u, posted 11-10-2012 9:58 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by kofh2u, posted 11-12-2012 12:00 PM Eli has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1290 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 99 of 107 (679096)
11-12-2012 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Eli
11-10-2012 10:32 PM


Re: mental evolution
That may all be true or not.

It is immaterial to my point, since most people today accept that man has an Unconscious mind, a preconscious archetypal and nonce more subconscious to us than it is today,... plus the ever so certain Conscious mind that now is aware of these other two member of the Trinity.

My point is that Jung and Freud are the great men on whose shoulders we now stand as we try to discover more about these previously unsuspecting intruders into our behavior and the whole of the societies that have grown up since the great flood of Modern Homo sapiens, Out-of-Africa, which now has carried men to the heights of the mountains and inundated every place under the heavens above.

This set of facts, that we have just awaken to our own semi-consciousness since 1920 suggests that no, is the right answer to "Is the evolution of modern man going to stop," and that the next step will be insight into our own Unconscious mind.

Scientifically supporting this is the latest book on the subject called Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior .

The author is that emminent scientist who works with Hawkins, Leonard Mlodinow.
He seems to have found much concrete evidence that I am correct.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Eli, posted 11-10-2012 10:32 PM Eli has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Eli, posted 11-12-2012 9:46 PM kofh2u has responded

    
Eli
Member (Idle past 962 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 100 of 107 (679201)
11-12-2012 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by kofh2u
11-12-2012 12:00 PM


Re: mental evolution
Your point was to make up things and to falsely attribute them to Freud and Jung and to skew the meassage and meaning of their work, just as you are doing with "Subliminal."

You should read the book before you decide whether or not it supports what you are saying.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by kofh2u, posted 11-12-2012 12:00 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by kofh2u, posted 11-13-2012 12:14 AM Eli has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1290 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 101 of 107 (679227)
11-13-2012 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Eli
11-12-2012 9:46 PM


Re: mental evolution

Your point was to make up things and to falsely attribute them to Freud and Jung and to skew the meassage and meaning of their work, just as you are doing with "Subliminal."
You should read the book before you decide whether or not it supports what you are saying.

So your general message here is not only that you disagree with me and everything I have posted but you could get angry and personal aboutit, when you settle down and start saying something which disputes that man has an Unconscious mind.

I say we will evolve to open up that Unonscious mind to our conscious awareness, just as we have done with the Subconscious mind to which I refer.

So..
Go ahead.
You deny the evidence of the book Subliminal.
Please tell us why.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Eli, posted 11-12-2012 9:46 PM Eli has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Eli, posted 11-13-2012 12:17 AM kofh2u has not yet responded
 Message 103 by Eli, posted 11-13-2012 12:22 AM kofh2u has responded

    
Eli
Member (Idle past 962 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 102 of 107 (679228)
11-13-2012 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by kofh2u
11-13-2012 12:14 AM


Re: mental evolution
Please give the evidence that you claim I deny and we will see if has any bearing on your proposal of a collective unconscious.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by kofh2u, posted 11-13-2012 12:14 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
Eli
Member (Idle past 962 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 103 of 107 (679231)
11-13-2012 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by kofh2u
11-13-2012 12:14 AM


Re: mental evolution
I anxiously await you to present an exerpt from the book which supports what you have claimed it says.

Think I'll head to bed since this is never going to happen.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by kofh2u, posted 11-13-2012 12:14 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by kofh2u, posted 11-13-2012 1:28 AM Eli has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1290 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 104 of 107 (679240)
11-13-2012 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Eli
11-13-2012 12:22 AM


Re: mental evolution
LOl

So you haven't read the book, accuse me of failing to sodo, and now want me to post a few senteces to synopsis what the author needed a whole book to sell his idea to a receptive audience.

The bottom line for me is that what this author says adds to the credibility of an evolution that would agree with the idea of life after death:

Revelation 21:4-5
And God, (blessing them with Total Phylogenetic Consciousness: [Carl Jung]), shall wipe away, (in their awakened Unconscious Mind: [Freudian Hypothesis]), all tears from their eyes, (for life is a genetically remember able continuum from one generation to the next living generation);
(in genetic memories of prior existences held in our Unconscious Mind) there shall be no more death... (For we shall not all "sleep:" [1Co15:51], but total phylogenetic Consciousness will have evolved), neither sorrow... (For we, individually, are part of a living continuum of our own past[s], flowers upon our genetic vine), nor crying,.. (for we are happy in these revelations of reconstitution from our human gene pool), neither shall there be any more pain... for the former things (in Modern Homo sapiens paradigm of the life experience) are passed away.

And “He,” (the ancient, phylogenetic, Collective Unconscious Mind), that sat upon the throne (within the kingdom of the evolving Homoiousian sapiens' brain: [Luke 17:21]) said, Behold, (in this way, through evolution: [Gen 9:11-18]), I make all things (in human experience) new.
And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true, (i.e.; Christ himself, the gospel Truth, rational, and scientifically feasible), and (worthy of) faithful (belief).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Eli, posted 11-13-2012 12:22 AM Eli has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Admin, posted 11-13-2012 3:47 AM kofh2u has not yet responded
 Message 107 by Eli, posted 11-13-2012 9:20 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12517
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 105 of 107 (679251)
11-13-2012 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by kofh2u
11-13-2012 1:28 AM


Re: mental evolution
Hi Kofh2u,

When you return from suspension, please note that this thread is about the evolution of modern man in a genetic sense, not a mental sense. If you continue to post off-topic in this thread then I will remove your posting permissions in the Human Origins and Evolution forum.

You're more than welcome to propose a thread to discuss what you've called mental evolution over at Proposed New Topics.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by kofh2u, posted 11-13-2012 1:28 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
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