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Author Topic:   Libya
Taq
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Posts: 10084
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 16 of 33 (609726)
03-22-2011 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by GDR
03-21-2011 1:54 PM


AbE: In my view the establishment of a no-fly zone on its own would have been a good thing, but as you said Percy they have gone well beyond that.
What would a "no-fly zone" only policy look like to the libyans on the ground, and by extension to the rest of the arab world? Do NATO and American planes fly over cities doing nothing as the Libyan army slaughters dissidents by the thousands? Is the excuse, "Well, they weren't in planes so there was nothing we could do," going to carry any weight?

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 Message 11 by GDR, posted 03-21-2011 1:54 PM GDR has replied

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10084
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 22 of 33 (609818)
03-23-2011 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by GDR
03-22-2011 6:31 PM


Once we go further than that the west can then be seen as picking winners and losers in the conflict and it will be construed as more western intervention in Arab affairs. If the rebels are victorious they will need to have credibility in order to establish government and build international relationships. If they are seen as being beholding to the west I think that this will be very difficult. (That is assuming that we in the west don't wind up getting involved politically which would make a bad situation worse IMHO). AS I said earlier it is important that this be viewed as an internal matter and not one that is being dictated by the west.
All very true. However, I don't think the current escalated intervention can be construed as picking a winner. We are picking a loser but one who everyone else in the arab world thinks is a loser. If the West only concerns itself with preventing large scale violence and keeps out of the political process I think they will come out looking fine.
Right now there are a number of countries in that part of the world whose governments are being seriously tested. By over stepping the mark in Syria we might cause other rebel groups to assume that we will step in to any similar situation over there. (Also, with what we are doing in Syria I think it is also fair to ask why we weren't in Sudan.)
Or why we haven't stepped in to stop genocide throughout Africa.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10084
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 24 of 33 (609823)
03-23-2011 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by GDR
03-23-2011 11:59 AM


I agree but how do you do it. Like they found out yesterday in rescuing the downed crew from that F15 you can't tell the good guys from the bad guys from the air, and if you put in ground troops it becomes another quagmire like Somalia.
From an F-15 you can tell the difference between a delivery truck and a tank. The people protesting in Libya are not driving tanks. If the protests are as well supported as is portrayed in the media then an army with just small arms would have a difficult time quelling the protests. I would also assume that a lot of libyan citizens are armed like in Iraq. Of course, aircraft are not going to engage armed troops in a suburban setting. It would take boots on the ground to make a difference in this setting, something that NATO and the UN have stated they will not be doing at the moment.
In Somlia there were not large tank divisions or an air force to speak of.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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