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Author
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Topic: Step 1 to bring the US into the First World Nations Campaign Financing
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: First Amendment
Dr Adequate writes: It means to lessen, limit or curtail. They deal with access and quantity, not with quality or presentation. But if you are going to go down that route, where is the principled argument against a law that says: "You can discuss the following things ... so long as you do so in the privacy of your own home"? Or: "... so long as you don't raise your voice above a whisper"? I'm sorry but "YAWN". I no longer feel like playing the little kid games. Try actually reading what I write.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 32 of 58 (610699)
03-31-2011 8:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 31 by jar
03-31-2011 7:26 PM
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Re: First Amendment
I'm sorry but "YAWN". I no longer feel like playing the little kid games. Try actually reading what I write. I did: perhaps you have not made yourself sufficiently clear. The implication of your posts seems to be that so long as the government lets you say what you like, they can regulate the way in which you do so. Now, to some extent this must be true. You surely should not have the right to say what you like at 5 a.m. through a bullhorn in a residential area. The question is, where would you like to draw the line and why?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 7:26 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 34 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 8:17 PM | | Dr Adequate has replied |
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ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4537 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: 09-25-2009
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Message 33 of 58 (610700)
03-31-2011 8:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by Taq
03-31-2011 6:37 PM
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Re: First Amendment
Taq writes: I could be wrong, but I think the SCOTUS has ruled that political donations do qualify as free speech. SCOTUS has also ruled that corporations are individuals which is a bit screwed up. Indeed they did - Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission. You can pass whatever kind of laws you like, but corporate interests will always find a way to own politics. Wealth = power.
I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die. -John Lydon What's the difference between a conspiracy theorist and a new puppy? The puppy eventually grows up and quits whining. -Steven Dutch I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. - John Stuart Mill
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by Taq, posted 03-31-2011 6:37 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: First Amendment
This thread is directed at Federal election and caimpaign financing, not on what can be said or where it can be said. Sorry but I see no connection to anything in your posts.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 37 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-31-2011 8:43 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 35 of 58 (610704)
03-31-2011 8:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 29 by jar
03-31-2011 7:12 PM
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Re: First Amendment
Actually if you read what I proposed it would also limit the totals spent so the guy using his on money still couldn't exceed the totals. Well, that is obviously unconstitutional. You simply cannot restrict someone's right spread their own message via the media. And you didn't even address the fact that it will further entrench the two-party system.
No, the average citizen can still influence politics through speech, but the citizen that just happens to have more money doesn't get to buy preferred status. Actually, it will have the reverse effect. Ross Perot can still buy a half an hour of prime time television to send out whatever message he wants to, but it's more difficult, if not impossible, for a bunch of less wealthy people to band together to do the same.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 7:12 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 36 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 8:36 PM | | subbie has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 36 of 58 (610706)
03-31-2011 8:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 35 by subbie
03-31-2011 8:32 PM
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Re: First Amendment
subbie writes: Actually if you read what I proposed it would also limit the totals spent so the guy using his on money still couldn't exceed the totals. Well, that is obviously unconstitutional. You simply cannot restrict someone's right spread their own message via the media. And you didn't even address the fact that it will further entrench the two-party system.
No, the average citizen can still influence politics through speech, but the citizen that just happens to have more money doesn't get to buy preferred status. Actually, it will have the reverse effect. Ross Perot can still buy a half an hour of prime time television to send out whatever message he wants to, but it's more difficult, if not impossible, for a bunch of less wealthy people to band together to do the same. Again, read what I wrote. I proposed that media time for Federal Level Campaign advertising be free.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by subbie, posted 03-31-2011 8:32 PM | | subbie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 38 by subbie, posted 03-31-2011 8:56 PM | | jar has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 37 of 58 (610709)
03-31-2011 8:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by jar
03-31-2011 8:17 PM
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Re: First Amendment
This thread is directed at Federal election and caimpaign financing, not on what can be said or where it can be said. Which is possibly why I was actually addressing the issue of how it can be said.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 8:17 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 38 of 58 (610712)
03-31-2011 8:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 36 by jar
03-31-2011 8:36 PM
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Re: First Amendment
I proposed that media time for Federal Level Campaign advertising be free. For all candidates for all federal offices on an equal time basis? Man, you are living in a fantasy world. Never happen, and unworkable as a practical matter. Let's look at the 2008 election as an example. Wiki says there were 10 candidates for the Dimwitcrat and Repugnantcan nomination alone. In addition, there were 12 different "third-party" candidates. And, if they were going to get free advertising to the same degree as any major party candidate, at least twice that many nutjobs would put together a campaign just to get the air time. Moreover, this doesn't even begin to consider all the candidates for the House and the Senate. Unworkable and unconstitutional, otherwise an interesting idea.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 36 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 8:36 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 40 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 9:08 PM | | subbie has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 39 of 58 (610714)
03-31-2011 9:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 26 by jar
03-31-2011 6:41 PM
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Re: First Amendment
You asking me Jon? No; I was asking subbie what happens to equal freedom of speech when access to that speech can be bought with money, the distribution of which is anything but equal. Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 6:41 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 41 by subbie, posted 03-31-2011 9:14 PM | | Jon has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 40 of 58 (610715)
03-31-2011 9:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 38 by subbie
03-31-2011 8:56 PM
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Re: First Amendment
Again, read what I wrote. Only the folk running for President would get national air time, the others would get airtime in the areas of their constituency and the time could be prorated based on the number and area of their constituents.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by subbie, posted 03-31-2011 8:56 PM | | subbie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 42 by subbie, posted 03-31-2011 9:22 PM | | jar has replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 41 of 58 (610717)
03-31-2011 9:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 39 by Jon
03-31-2011 9:06 PM
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Re: First Amendment
I was asking subbie what happens to equal freedom of speech when access to that speech can be bought with money, the distribution of which is anything but equal. The First Amendment prohibits the government from abridging freedom of speech. It doesn't require them to guarantee everyone equal access.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 39 by Jon, posted 03-31-2011 9:06 PM | | Jon has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 44 by Jon, posted 03-31-2011 11:54 PM | | subbie has seen this message but not replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 42 of 58 (610718)
03-31-2011 9:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 40 by jar
03-31-2011 9:08 PM
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Re: First Amendment
And you think it's feasible to provide equal access to national air time for more than 30 candidates for president, and for local media to provide equal access to sometimes a hundred or more candidates?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 9:08 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 43 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 9:27 PM | | subbie has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 43 of 58 (610719)
03-31-2011 9:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 42 by subbie
03-31-2011 9:22 PM
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Re: First Amendment
subbie writes: And you think it's feasible to provide equal access to national air time for more than 30 candidates for president, and for local media to provide equal access to sometimes a hundred or more candidates? Sure. Not just feasible but entirely practical. Maybe some of the candidates other then the big two might then attract a following.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by subbie, posted 03-31-2011 9:22 PM | | subbie has seen this message but not replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 44 of 58 (610723)
03-31-2011 11:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 41 by subbie
03-31-2011 9:14 PM
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Re: First Amendment
The First Amendment prohibits the government from abridging freedom of speech. It doesn't require them to guarantee everyone equal access. In that case, the freedom to spend money is nowhere guaranteed. Jon Edited by Jon, : No reason given.
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by subbie, posted 03-31-2011 9:14 PM | | subbie has seen this message but not replied |
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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2724 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: 02-04-2008
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Message 45 of 58 (610726)
04-01-2011 12:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by jar
03-31-2011 2:54 PM
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Hi, Jar. Maybe I missed somebody asking this already, but when and why and by what authority was the United States kicked out of the First World?
-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 2:54 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 46 by jar, posted 04-01-2011 9:46 AM | | Blue Jay has replied |
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