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Author Topic:   Fox news = false news
RAZD
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Posts: 18455
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 241 of 299 (723468)
04-02-2014 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Dr Adequate
04-01-2014 2:28 PM


as of March 31st ...
7,100,000

and now the GOP alternate reality machine is saying that the White House is "cooking the books" ... yep, and Romney won in 2012 ... it is amazing to watch people so committed to being wrong.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-01-2014 2:28 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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vimesey
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Posts: 848
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 242 of 299 (723469)
04-02-2014 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Dr Adequate
04-01-2014 2:28 PM


This should be the focus of any campaign for improving educational standards. "Do you see people ? THIS is why learning a little bit of math is important ! THIS is why you need to be educated ! If you want to see when you're being lied to, when you're being manipulated, you need to pay a bit of attention in class ! Saying that your iPhone has a calculator ain't good enough !"

Grrrrrr !


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 121 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 243 of 299 (723470)
04-02-2014 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Dr Adequate
04-01-2014 2:28 PM


Yes, six (6) is roughly a quarter of seven (7)

Not only have they invended "novel" way of telling the truth but now it seems that even mathematics are fair game...


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NoNukes
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Posts: 9537
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 244 of 299 (723473)
04-02-2014 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by RAZD
04-02-2014 8:05 AM


Re: as of March 31st ...
and now the GOP alternate reality machine is saying that the White House is "cooking the books" ... yep, and Romney won in 2012 ... it is amazing to watch people so committed to being wrong.

Thanks for reminding me about Karl Rove's spin up on Fox New when the math folks on Fox announced that Obama had won. I just did a spit take with milk all over my notebook.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


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ringo
Member
Posts: 13023
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 245 of 299 (723485)
04-02-2014 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Dr Adequate
04-01-2014 2:28 PM


Reminded me of a book I read years ago, How to Lie with Statistics:
quote:
" It also shows how statistical graphs can be used to distort reality, for example by truncating the bottom of a line or bar chart, so that differences seem larger than they are...."

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JonF
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Posts: 3535
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 246 of 299 (723486)
04-02-2014 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by ringo
04-02-2014 12:46 PM


Yeah, exactly that sort of zero suppression was one of the examples.
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Taz
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 247 of 299 (723493)
04-02-2014 9:34 PM


Can someone explain to me what fox has to gain with that graph?
Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3427
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 7.4


Message 248 of 299 (723497)
04-02-2014 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by RAZD
04-02-2014 8:05 AM


Re: as of March 31st ...
GOP alternate reality machine is saying that the White House is "cooking the books"

Clear, non-partisan, objective inquiry ...

Do we know for a fact that they haven't?

How do we know?

Do we trust that source? Why?

We all want this to succeed. They tell us it succeeded. We are happy. We have heard what we wanted to hear.

Do we look no deeper to see that this is in fact the case?


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15927
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 249 of 299 (723500)
04-03-2014 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by AZPaul3
04-02-2014 11:56 PM


Re: as of March 31st ...
Well, a lot of the data is coming from states that set up their own exchanges. How does the White House cook their books? And then of course the federal website, for those who used it, was built by private contractors, so the government would have to bribe the contractors to get a false result there, it's not like Obama sits in the Oval Office counting insurance applications. And, ultimately, the figure in question is how much insurance people bought from private insurance companies. Well then, the companies know how much insurance they've sold.
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Replies to this message:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1605
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 250 of 299 (723504)
04-03-2014 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Taz
04-02-2014 9:34 PM


Well, one of the reasons could be to try and fool the functionally uneducated for political purposes.

I mean, those basic graphs with an x axis and a y axis are simple. I was taught and understood how they worked when I was 10 years old. If adults can't work it out, they could be classified as functionally uneducated.


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AZPaul3
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Posts: 3427
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 7.4


Message 251 of 299 (723505)
04-03-2014 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Dr Adequate
04-03-2014 12:38 AM


Add a little wine ...
Has anyone but one small office at HHS seen the state data? Does this contractor actually run the federal site? And of the hundreds of insurance companies involved has anyone independently aggregated their data to compare to HHS?

There has been no independent corroboration. If we can be fooled in something so stark as the body count in war this insurance stuff is a piece of pie to fudge.

We would like, and mostly do, think the HHS data is accurate. But we do not actually know. I think it would be politically wise to close that door with an OMB audit before November.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3427
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 7.4


(1)
Message 252 of 299 (723506)
04-03-2014 7:39 AM


Due When? Why?
This may not seem to be in any way related to the OP or FOX News but it actually is. Those of you who cannot see the connection will just have to take my (trustworthy) word that this is, in fact, directly linked to the original topic of this thread.

Why is there this short sign-up period requirement for health insurance? Why are changes to the policy not allowed except in the case of "life changing" events?

If I want any other insurance (auto, life, homeowners, rental, etc.) all I need do is call the company and say I want some and they say OK you're covered as of today. If I call and say raise this coverage and lower that coverage just because I want it they say OK it's effective as of today.

Why is ObamaCare not open to enrollment 24/7/365? What is this enrollment period restriction carpola all about?


Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Theodoric, posted 04-03-2014 9:23 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 253 of 299 (723509)
04-03-2014 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by AZPaul3
04-03-2014 7:39 AM


Re: Due When? Why?
Why is ObamaCare not open to enrollment 24/7/365? What is this enrollment period restriction carpola all about?

All health insurance has this. There are a number of reasons for an open enrollment. Primarily, people would wait until they got sick or needed an expensive procedure before they got sick. Also, open enrollment is when insurance companies and company health plans unveil what the benefits will be for the coming year. Also, there are underwriting and actuarial issues. Without an open enrollment, people could jump around and in and out of plans all year long. An open enrollment limits this. As a former business eligibility analyst for a large insurance company, the biggest reason for us was to make sure we got accurate and up to date demographic and other info from each person covered. Open enrollment was long hours but actually lots of fun. There was a sense of power and importance when loading the eligibility for some of the biggest companies in US.

It is important to realize that open enrollment is not a feature of just ACA, it is part of all group health insurance.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18455
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


(4)
Message 254 of 299 (723515)
04-03-2014 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Theodoric
04-03-2014 9:23 AM


Re: Due When? Why?
It is important to realize that open enrollment is not a feature of just ACA, it is part of all group health insurance.

And even applies to Medicare supplement programs.

But if we go to universal single payer Medicare expansion then it becomes less important.

The reason that car and house insurance could allow jumping from plan to plan is because generally speaking you had to have insurance ... from someone.

Healthcare is moving in that direction, so it is possible that this will occur -- as the plan is improved:

  1. expand Medicare eligibility each year (lower age requirement, add children ...)
  2. delink healthcare from employment benefits so that everyone gets the healthcare they want rather than what employer provides (no more Hobby Lobby hypocrisy problem)
  3. universal single payer system option (buy into medicare option)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Theodoric, posted 04-03-2014 9:23 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15927
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


(5)
Message 255 of 299 (723525)
04-03-2014 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by AZPaul3
04-03-2014 7:14 AM


Re: Add a little wine ...
PRESIDENTS ANNOUNCEMENT OF HEALTH-CARE NUMBERS ANGERS OPPONENTS OF MATH

Tuesdays announcement by President Obama that 7.1 million people have signed up for Obamacare set off a firestorm of controversy among opponents of math in the U.S. Congress.

Representative Michele Bachmann, a leading member of the anti-math caucus, told reporters, Throughout the debate on Obamacare, there has been a tacit agreement to leave math out of it. Today, President Obama broke that agreement.

Senator John Barrasso, an anti-math Republican from Wyoming, agreed. Its very disappointing to see the President use arithmetic for political purposes, he said.

Bachmann said that she believed the American people would see through President Obamas desperate use of numbers. She added, Whenever this President gets in trouble, he hides behind data.

The Minnesota Republican said that many others in Congress agreed with her, but she declined to count them.


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