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Author Topic:   Are Atheists "Philosophically Limited"....?
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2153 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 17 of 262 (618647)
06-04-2011 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
06-02-2011 3:15 PM


Re: Are Atheists "Philosophically Limited"....?
Straggler writes:
Are atheists philosophically limited..?
...
I don’t want to single out Phat in particular because this charge of being philosophically limited is one that I have seen aimed at atheists before (doesn’t Karen Armstrong say something similar?) but I am not sure what it means exactly. Can anyone elaborate?
Obviously I don’t see atheism as philosophically limited but until I know what is meant by that exactly it is difficult to say. Maybe it is philosophically limited in a way that I have not yet considered.
I don't know what they or you mean by "philosophically limited". But some have made the case that the "new atheists" (Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, et al, recently joined by Hawking) are philosophically deficient. McGrath, Lennox, and others have taken Dawkins to task for his sloppy thinking about philosophy of science and philosophy in general. Hawking essentially rejects philosophy as outmoded and irrelevant in his "Grand Design".
This sloppy thinking does not seem to be true of all atheists. Some, such as Peter Medawar, are fairly careful and philosophically astute.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 3:15 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Modulous, posted 06-05-2011 4:34 AM kbertsche has replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2153 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 21 of 262 (618695)
06-05-2011 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Modulous
06-05-2011 4:34 AM


Modulous writes:
I'd love to see the case which has Dennett come out as 'philosophically deficient' while Peter Medawar is philosophically astute; and it would strike at the heart of the topic, too.
BTW, the last of the "four horsemen of new atheism" who I forgot was Hitchens.
I heard Dennett speak a few years ago, and was not impressed by his philosophy of science or of God. But I don't remember enough details to say any more. I am most familiar with Dawkins, and as I said, he is the one most commonly taken to task for sloppy philosophy (and rightly so, IMO). Maybe someone else can provide more information on Dennett's arguments?
Medawar is a scientist rather than a philosopher, but he seems to think fairly clearly and deeply about philosophy of science. His book on "The Limits of Science" seems to be quite good.
Edited by kbertsche, : No reason given.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Modulous, posted 06-05-2011 4:34 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Modulous, posted 06-05-2011 10:38 AM kbertsche has replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2153 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 23 of 262 (618701)
06-05-2011 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Modulous
06-05-2011 10:38 AM


Modulous writes:
I am most familiar with Dawkins, and as I said, he is the one most commonly taken to task for sloppy philosophy (and rightly so, IMO).
I do think it is funny to say that a professional philosopher is philosophically deficient and your basis for that seems to be that you weren't personally impressed with his position.
But to keep discussion moving I'll accept examples of the deficiency of philosophy with regards to Dawkins so that we might at least know what you mean.
Sorry, I did not say that I wasn't impressed with Dennett's position. Rather, I was not impressed with his thinking about God and about philosophy of science. I remember that his arguments struck me as shallow and unsophisticated. But since I can't remember the details of his arguments, I can't elaborate further.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Modulous, posted 06-05-2011 10:38 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Modulous, posted 06-05-2011 4:24 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
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