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Author Topic:   The Constraints of Design
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 9 of 84 (482681)
09-17-2008 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dogrelata
09-17-2008 7:55 AM


In creationism you start out with nothing, or zero, creatio ex nihilo. So the constraint is basically nothing.
A thing is designed if it exists as a whole in the future first. For example there is a likelyhood of fourlegged animals in the universe, from the start of the universe. So there exists this design of basic forms in the universe still, and the design was made at the start of the universe. Paley refers to classes of organisms.
If a thing is formed by many decisions, and the whole is not considered in each of those decisions, then it was not designed. For example if I add bits to a thing, and my options are just between different bits, then i am not designing the thing. But if I add bits to a thing and my options are between different whole things, then I am designing the thing.
That is mainly a science of history. But there is also another meaning of design, which is based on the order of the thing itself. For example in terms of universal language, peoples language has much similar order as DNA does. And so for everything we can look at what order it has.

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Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 10 of 84 (482687)
09-17-2008 1:44 PM


I think that what you want to know is something like, if the universal constants are changeable or not. I think thats what you mean by supernatural, from outside the universe, that the constraints are changed, a super over all the natural, changing the natural at will.
Newton opined that a system needs renewal from an outside source, otherwise it decays. That would be the reason for disciplined prayer, to receive this renewal, so he opined. That sounds reasonable to me.

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Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 14 of 84 (482705)
09-17-2008 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by dogrelata
09-17-2008 2:04 PM


Re: What I want to know
Well then your answer must be nothing, creatio ex nihilo. Prior to anything there is the logic of nothing, as it says in a paper on it. That is the constraint, or lack thereof. And that is also how peoples creation works, from nothing. What is added from nothing is new, obviously. So that is the material with which God works. Ofcourse spiritually God works with love and such. But neither peoples nor Gods love are material things according to creationism.

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Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 38 of 84 (482862)
09-18-2008 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by dogrelata
09-17-2008 4:00 PM


Re: What I want to know
You will just have to look at the history to be sure what kind of decisionmaking was involved. But the fact tha the order of DNA is similar to peoples language indicates intelligent design of some sort, reasoned an informed decisions where there are whole organisms in the future, rather then decision between bits as in natural selection.

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 Message 44 by dogrelata, posted 09-19-2008 2:47 AM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 51 of 84 (483014)
09-19-2008 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by dogrelata
09-19-2008 2:47 AM


Re: What I want to know
You just have to take the literal meaning of it. So this information theoretician derived the universal alphabet from nature, just like for instance the chart of all chemicals was derived. So then looking in terms of this alphabet it's discovered that the order of people's language and DNA is similar.
So that basically means that rather then that DNA is just an instruction set, it also occasions decisionmaking processes in development to adulthood. So the language of DNA is not just like
-make the eyeball in the socket there, put a lens on it, but it is also like;
-make a beautiful eyeball there, fantastic good going, now go and make a crystal clear lens on it.
So there are qualifiers in DNA language which indeterministicly regulate decisionmaking processes that are involved with development.

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 Message 52 by bluescat48, posted 09-19-2008 11:40 PM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 53 of 84 (483130)
09-20-2008 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by bluescat48
09-19-2008 11:40 PM


Re: What I want to know
BCS, The Chartered Institute for IT | BCS
talking about DNA
"where A = T delivers the new symbol, which maybe a single character, a subset alphabet or an entire alphabet. That is, it represents the create operation, so that by contrast GC symbolizes the conserve operation, which examines/proof-reads all symbols currently in existence to ensure no anomalies exist as a consequence of the bringing into existence of the new symbol. This rule must therefore verify/maintain the conservation of 3 dimensional chemical structural stability"
The universal alphabet is based on the zero, and all tracing back to zero. For example from 0 and 1, we get 00,01,10,11. The 00 traces back to zero, and the 01 traces back to zero through its counterpart 10. But then 11 does not trace back to zero so it is just expressive, occasioning decisionmaking. So the instruction set part of DNA is in terms of 00,01 and 10, and this tracing back to zero enables seeing if development is going according to design in DNA, which leaves the 11 combination to occasion decisionmaking for when there is no exact design.

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 Message 52 by bluescat48, posted 09-19-2008 11:40 PM bluescat48 has replied

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