Does Evolution Have An Objective?

What is the difference between something that has an objective and something that is merely a result of conditions? Having an objective denotes intent which requires sentience. Just because a hole holds water it doesn’t mean that it intended to. If we all are just the result of conditions what is the essential difference between you and a mud puddle? Where is the demarcation point and why is it there?If evolution has no objective then how can anything be said to have an objective?

Thread copied here from the Does Evolution Have An Objective? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

This sounds like a very oblique way to raise the question of free will in a deterministic universe, is that what you intended?TTFN,WK

Conscious critters have objectives, primarily because they define 'objective' based on their behavior.Jon

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Love your enemies!

I don't agree that sentience is required for objectives.For a system to follow an objective requires that (a) the system identifies the objective and (b) takes steps to achieve it based on that objective. Thus a bee involved in nectar foraging behaviour can be said to have an objective, a computer AI can be said to have an objective (sometimes) and we can be said to have objectives but a puddle has no objective because it is not acting to achieve anything. Evolution meets neither criteria so it has no objective.Or, alternatively: only entities can have objectives. Neither a puddle nor evolution are entities so neither can have an objective.

You answered your own question.

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Having an objective denotes intent which requires sentience.

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But is this correct? Is a gray wolf sentient? When it is chasing a rabbit it is clear its objective, the wolf's intent, is dinner. Is evolution sentient? Does evolution have an intent? Does a process ever have an intent?The water cycle is a process that exists on this planet. Did it develop with an intent or did it develop as a result of conditions?Humans are sentient. Some of the constructs of our sentience are objective or goal or purpose all denoting intent. Without human sentience these constructs do not exist.Our present sentience had no effect on the processes that developed in the universe. Our sentience, and thus our concepts, are an artifact of these processes developed as a result of conditions are they not?.

Interesting that in a completely deterministic universe our choices would be simply a illusion. From the moment of the big bang, your choice to log on this morning was nothing more than a cascade of physics and chemistry. So despite apparent objectives, the inevitable choice was already made at the universes inception.
So if the universe is indeed fully deterministic, are our objectives simply a matter of course? Edited by 1.61803, : spelling

This does not follow. The universe could be completely deterministic, and we would still have free will and be making choices.

Define your meaning of objective.Perhaps organisms have environmental objectives? The animals Evolve in such a way as to best suit their environment, however this is the result of Natural Selection and not some transcendental being.

But those choices would be an illusion...

In the same sense would it be correct to say that genes have an objective? I.e. to pass themselves on. If genes can be said to have objectives then maybe evolution by natural selection could be said to have the "objective" of passing on a combination of genes suited to an environment?I admit it is a pretty tenuous use of the word "objective"..... But I am not exactly sure what the OP is looking for here.

Or, this could be a probabilistic universe where a specific set of initial conditions does not lead to a specific future configuration but to a broad range of possible configurations. The interconnection and overlapping of billions of these broad ranges would give an almost infinite set of final configurations that may be achieved leading to the illusion of choice indistinguishable from free will.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Why?

How could something be a choice if it is predetermined?

No, a gene has no concept of that objective, and takes no steps based on that concept to achieve it. What would hold that objective? What steps would it be taking in response to that objective?