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Author Topic:   War and Morality. Al Qaeda v USA
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 49 of 175 (621604)
06-27-2011 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Nuggin
06-27-2011 9:36 AM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
I'm talking about an organization that's willing to state: "Here's our goal and here's what we will or will not attack in principle."
You actually think the US is open and honest about the foul acts of war they readily commit? Why do you think they have criminalized Julian Assange? Because they want their heinous acts to be on the low low as far as the US public is concerned. They want to uphold their good guy image.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 9:36 AM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 11:16 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 64 of 175 (621656)
06-27-2011 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Nuggin
06-27-2011 11:16 AM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
Now, there's what's supposed to happen and what actually happens. I'm not really talking about fog of war or bad intel or mistakes or even a psycho in uniform.
I guess you don't hear about the drones killing civilians, eh? There is at least a 10-1 civilian/"terrorist" kill ratio for every drone attack.
quote:
Critics correctly find many problems with this program, most of all the number of civilian casualties the strikes have incurred. Sourcing on civilian deaths is weak and the numbers are often exaggerated, but more than 600 civilians are likely to have died from the attacks. That number suggests that for every militant killed, 10 or so civilians also died.
Source
Have they stopped the drone attacks? How about Guantanamo? Waterboarding? Good ole America isn't always the good guy the patriots paint it to be.....

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 11:16 AM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 7:43 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 68 by Dogmafood, posted 06-27-2011 8:46 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 66 of 175 (621659)
06-27-2011 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Nuggin
06-27-2011 7:43 PM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
When YOUR source says that your sourcing is weak and exaggerated, it's time to stop using that source.
You're right. Coming by numbers of actual civilian deaths is tough, since the only intel we (the public) get is second hand. That's not to say it is justifiable the way the drones are being used. A LOT of civilians are dying due to them.
Now we spend billions developing bombs specifically so that we don't have to carpet bomb and people still bitch.
I'm "bitching" that we are there at all. I'm just saying that we aren't exactly the heroes people want to paint us as. It's not really "America, fuck yea!". That was a movie.....

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 7:43 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 8:39 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 69 of 175 (621666)
06-27-2011 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Nuggin
06-27-2011 8:39 PM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
Qualify that.
More civilians die as a result of the drone attacks than do militants.
On per armament or per engagement basis, how do drones rank up against bombers or artillery or foot soldiers?
I've no idea.
I agree with everything else in your post.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 8:39 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 9:31 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 70 of 175 (621667)
06-27-2011 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Dogmafood
06-27-2011 8:46 PM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
Having pointed these things out, I also want to say that we should and we do hold ourselves to a higher standard. In fact, can you point to any that are higher?
Yea, how about NOT torturing and NOT indefinitely holding individuals who have been accused of NO crime and are not POW's or war criminals. Just because what the other guy would do is worse doesn't somehow make it OK for us to torture people.
but ignoring the fact that your enemies deliberately target schools (the ones with no girls in them) and hospitals.
Who's ignoring that? I sure as shit am not. It's just not what is being discussed.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Dogmafood, posted 06-27-2011 8:46 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Dogmafood, posted 06-27-2011 9:29 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 73 of 175 (621671)
06-27-2011 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Dogmafood
06-27-2011 9:29 PM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
In the real world, who conducts their wars with a higher regard for human rights and civilian casualties?
Comparatively speaking, you are correct: we do.
Just because we are not perfect doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that the enemy is worse by magnitudes.
I never ignored this fact. All I was saying was that it it shouldn't matter what tactics the enemy uses. We ought to be the "bigger man" so to speak. If we are going to police the world and attempt to lead by example, we need to be an example worth following.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Dogmafood, posted 06-27-2011 9:29 PM Dogmafood has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 74 of 175 (621672)
06-27-2011 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Nuggin
06-27-2011 9:31 PM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
Here is a link to a pertinent Wiki article. I don't have time to analyze it (at work right now). I will check it out when I get some down time, so don't think I'm saying "here, you do the research".
Civilian casualties caused by ISAF and US Forces in the War in Afghanistan (2001—present)
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 9:31 PM Nuggin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Coyote, posted 06-27-2011 11:10 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 76 of 175 (621674)
06-27-2011 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Coyote
06-27-2011 11:10 PM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
Oh, right. i forgot the part where the Afghanistan army invaded our country, flew bombers over our weddings, killed us with unmanned aerial vehicles etc.
Tell me Coyote, what DOES Afghanistan have to do with 9/11? Or is this your hit and run and yell "socialist!" and not actually bring anything to the table?

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Coyote, posted 06-27-2011 11:10 PM Coyote has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 85 of 175 (621744)
06-28-2011 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by onifre
06-28-2011 11:53 AM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
I'm actually shocked the you got hoooah to agree.
I agreed insofar as that we don't openly and admittedly target civilians. Yes, civilians are a large part of who we kill, but that is because the "bad guys" hide amongst them. And no, I do not say that to imply that I think they are just "casualties of war". The U.S. has not exactly been discriminatory about singling out the operatives.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by onifre, posted 06-28-2011 11:53 AM onifre has not replied

  
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