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Author Topic:   The Awesome Republican Primary Thread
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1178 of 1485 (710515)
11-06-2013 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1176 by frako
11-06-2013 6:35 AM


frako writes:
So what party is the crack smoking alcohol abusing mayor of Toronto from?
I believe Rob Ford is from the "Conservative" party.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1176 by frako, posted 11-06-2013 6:35 AM frako has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(6)
Message 1179 of 1485 (710516)
11-06-2013 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1177 by vimesey
11-06-2013 7:00 AM


Toronto's Mayor
vimesey writes:
I kind of admire the optimism of any elected official who says "yeah, looks like I did crack, but in my defence, I was so shit faced at the time, I didn't know what I was doing. But hey, back to the day job now folks!"
The whole thing's crazy.
I live an hour outside Toronto, so I don't get to vote for their mayor.. and I don't go into the city very often so I don't really care what they do either.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that all drugs should be made legal. If people want to kill themselves on shit they know is dangerous, I don't have a problem with it. Also, if you think none of the other rich businessmen/politicians in the city aren't doing cocaine... bless you're little heart.
I don't think the mayor should be kicked out of office for smoking crack.
I think the mayor should be kicked out of office if he's doing a bad job.
It doesn't matter if the crack is making him do a bad job, or if he's just stupid... if he's doing a bad job, then kick him out.
If he's doing a good job, then keep him in.
I haven't heard how he's doing on his job. Every report just seems to stop at "he smoked crack." I don't really care.
If you want to put him in jail for breaking the law... then do that. (I don't think they have the evidence for this though? I'm not really sure how it works...)
Anyway, my point is to judge someone on their job by their job performance. Anything else is just irrelevant drama when the point of discussion is job performance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1177 by vimesey, posted 11-06-2013 7:00 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1180 by vimesey, posted 11-06-2013 10:13 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1182 of 1485 (710532)
11-06-2013 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1180 by vimesey
11-06-2013 10:13 AM


Re: Toronto's Mayor
vimesey writes:
But if your salary (I'm guessing a reasonably large one) comes out of every resident's pocket; and you are in a position of leadership and authority; then I think that part of your job spec is to behave fairly well - you're representing these people.
A perfectly reasonable position.
I just don't agree.
That's why we vote for these kinds of positions, I guess
I think that if we vote someone to do certain work... and they do that work... then who gives a rat's ass what they do in their "off" time?
Some of us have a priority of wanting those in public office to represent us all the time.
Others have a priority of want those in public office to do what they said they would do while in office.
I think there's reasonable defences for both positions.
I just prefer the later. I wouldn't want anyone judging my professional abilities by what I do in my off time either. The OCD-compartments of my mind do not like to mix things that I think should be kept separate.
Same principle as when Clinton got impeached for inappropriate use of his staff.
Actually, I agree with Clinton's removal. He did his "fun" while on the clock, at work, with his work-interns. That's not doing the job you were supposed to do.
The Toronto stuff, to me, is something different. This is a man making horrible decisions in his personal life.
But, (as far as I'm aware... and I admit I'm not all that aware of Toronto-dealings...) he's done what he said he would do while in office (lower taxes, reduce overhead-waste, get the city's budget in the black, finally get the subway construction started...)
In a hypothetical scenario...
If it's a mayor who takes care of the fiscal situation and does the projects he said he would do, but hits up the crack pipe every night.
vs.
A mayor who lets the money slide and get wasted and doesn't care about the projects that need to be done in the city, but doesn't even smoke cigarettes let alone hard drugs.
Then I'd vote for the drug-addict every day.
But, like I said... I also think drugs should be legalized so that's probably why I don't care so much.
(Unless he owes some responsibility to me of course).
Maybe that's the difference?
I really don't care if someone who owes me some responsibility smokes crack or not.
I don't care if they commit seppuku after they complete their responsibility to me.
I don't care if they break their own legs or get tattoos or like to yodel into a microphone until their ears bleed... as long as it doesn't affect the responsibility that they owe me.
They can mistreat themselves all they like in whatever manner they prefer.
If they owe me a responsibility, all I care about is having that responsibility fulfilled. What they do otherwise is irrelevant to me.
I wouldn't condone them mistreating others. But what they do to themselves is their own business, as far as I care.
I guess you could say that part of a mayor's responsibility is to "look attractive" to external-onlookers?
But that sort of thing has never been important to me, which I suppose is why that doesn't bother me either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1180 by vimesey, posted 11-06-2013 10:13 AM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1185 by yenmor, posted 11-06-2013 6:10 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1188 of 1485 (710571)
11-06-2013 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1185 by yenmor
11-06-2013 6:10 PM


Re: Toronto's Mayor
yenmor writes:
Everyone, and I mean everyone, has a down time at some point during the work day.
Are you trying to say there's no difference between telling some jokes and having oral sex?
I'm not for Clinton's removal because he "had down time" (heh... )
I'm for his removal because he didn't respect the obvious conflict of interest in having oral sex, at work, during work hours, with one of his interns. That's abuse of power over a subordinate. Regardless of whether or not she wanted it or possibly even initiated it... it's a conflict of interest and against any ethical code of conduct as a professional anything.
That sort of attitude, in a professional setting, is not something I'm okay with when voting on someone going into a professional setting.
If he told a joke to her, however, I'd be fine with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1185 by yenmor, posted 11-06-2013 6:10 PM yenmor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1189 by NoNukes, posted 11-06-2013 10:41 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1193 by yenmor, posted 11-07-2013 7:37 AM Stile has replied
 Message 1195 by Diomedes, posted 11-07-2013 10:09 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1194 of 1485 (710598)
11-07-2013 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1193 by yenmor
11-07-2013 7:37 AM


Conflict of Interest
yenmor writes:
I really don't see a difference between oral sex and joking around.
I can see where this is coming from.
I also admit that it's quite possible to have such a relationship that doesn't interfere with work at all.
The point is that it's difficult to do so.
That's what a conflict of interest is.. and that's why they should be avoided. Because it creates situations where it's easy to slip up and do something inappropriate or wrong according to the responsibilities of your position.
A conflict of interest in itself isn't even a reason to be pulled out of a position.
The problem is if you try to hide or ignore the conflict of interest.
If there is a conflict of interest, and you openly inform all those who need to be informed of such a thing going on... then everything's okay.
If you don't do this, however... then obviously there is "something" that you are protecting/hiding/ashamed of. That thing is what creates the pressure on the individual to slide on the responsibilities of their position.
Clinton had a clear conflict of interest.
Clinton didn't make the information known to those who should know about it.
Clinton even tried to hide the conflict of interest (I think? I think he denied it when asked, no?).
Therefore... he should be removed from his position.
It's like this:
Let's say I have my own company for making batteries.
Let's say I'm also on contract for a company called Bright Lights for manufacturing flashlights.
Let's say Bright Lights asks me to get a battery manufacturer lined up for their production.
This is a conflict of interest.
If I inform Bright Lights that I happen to have a battery company myself and would like to propose my own batteries for their production... it's fine.
If I do not inform Bright Lights that I happen to have a battery company myself, and I still use my own company to get batteries to Bright Lights... then I am doing something very wrong and should be fired.
-it doesn't matter if the deal I put together is fair, or even in Bright Light's favour... the fact that I'm doing something shady on the job is enough to have me removed from my position.
It's how employment ethics work.
I think it may also be a law? I'm not sure about that, though. Pretty sure it's a law for most professionals, though.
Didn't you mention you're a professional engineer? Did you not have to write some sort of ethics test in order to obtain your professional status?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1193 by yenmor, posted 11-07-2013 7:37 AM yenmor has not replied

  
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