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Author Topic:   Expressing your beliefs as a percentage
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 4422 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


Message 1 of 46 (623114)
07-06-2011 3:01 AM


Expressed as a percentage, how sure are you that your particular version of creation is correct? This is open to all. Whether it be the Big Bang and Evolution, Young Earth Creation, Old Earth Creation, ID or any other interpretation of the scripture. This is a question of the specific version you follow.
The second part of the question is - expressed as a percentage, how many people who share your particular faith (or perceived scientific theory like evolution, ID etc) share your version or interpretation of that faith (or scientific theory etc)? e.g there are many Christians on this website, however, some are YEC, some are OEC etc so there may be many people who share the faith, but a small percentage who share that particular version of the faith.
The objective of this question is to see what sort of unity there is amongst the different groups and where peoples affiliations lay.
Feel free to elaborate on why you have attributed these percentages.
For myself, I believe the Big Bang and Evolution to be the forces of creation.
I would put a percentage of 50% on the Big Bang because I am not well versed in the theory but I trust the judgement of people who are.
Evolution I would say 99%. I leave a 1% margin because no theory can be proven to be 100% true and the evidnce appears to be overwhelming. I also have not found any credible opposing theory.
I would say that 90% of the people who follow the Big Bang Theory and Evolution believe the same version that I do. I have left a 10% margin as there are variations in some elements of the theories but the majority are unified. I do not believe that there is anyone on this forum who would have any significant differences in their answer if we were asked to describe our interpretation of Evolutionary Theory.
Here are the two questions:
  1. Describe which type of creation you believe brought the universe into existence. Examples of possible answers are the Big Bang and Evolution, Young Earth Creation, Old Earth Creation, ID or any other interpretation of the scripture. Be as detailed as you like.
  2. Expressed as a percentage, what is your confidence factor that your belief is correct, where 100% expresses complete certainty and 0% expresses no certainty at all.
The second question is actually not the above. My first question was the above question 1 and 2 in one question.
The second question was actually : Expressed as a percentage, how many people do you know who share your particular, personal interpretation of creation.
My reason for asking this is that it seems as if every creationist I speak with has a different personal version that they believe is correct. I am interested in finding out just how many different correct interpretations there are. To respectfully use an example, ICANT, who is obviously extremely well versed in Theology has a version of creation I have never heard before. But, with his qualifications, I dont know if there are many who could argue against him.
Sorry about the third question. Admin made changes without my knowledge that did not match my intent or the questions I asked.
  • [/list]
    Edited by Butterflytyrant, : No reason given.
    Edited by Butterflytyrant, : No reason given.
    Edited by Butterflytyrant, : No reason given.
    Edited by Admin, : Fix title, add a request for specific information so that responses take a consistent form.
    Edited by Butterflytyrant, : Changes were made that were incorrect.
    Edited by Butterflytyrant, : No reason given.
    Edited by Butterflytyrant, : improving.

  • Replies to this message:
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     Message 4 by Dr Jack, posted 07-08-2011 8:38 AM Butterflytyrant has seen this message but not replied
     Message 6 by Jon, posted 07-08-2011 10:00 AM Butterflytyrant has replied
     Message 11 by nwr, posted 07-08-2011 2:20 PM Butterflytyrant has seen this message but not replied
     Message 12 by GDR, posted 07-08-2011 3:36 PM Butterflytyrant has not replied
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    Butterflytyrant
    Member (Idle past 4422 days)
    Posts: 415
    From: Australia
    Joined: 06-28-2011


    Message 2 of 46 (623115)
    07-08-2011 5:03 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Butterflytyrant
    07-06-2011 3:01 AM


    Is there something wrong with this post?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-06-2011 3:01 AM Butterflytyrant has not replied

      
    Admin
    Director
    Posts: 12998
    From: EvC Forum
    Joined: 06-14-2002
    Member Rating: 2.3


    Message 3 of 46 (623117)
    07-08-2011 8:13 AM


    Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
    Thread copied here from the Expressing your beliefs as a percentage thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

      
    Dr Jack
    Member
    Posts: 3514
    From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
    Joined: 07-14-2003
    Member Rating: 8.7


    Message 4 of 46 (623122)
    07-08-2011 8:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Butterflytyrant
    07-06-2011 3:01 AM


    I believe we can effectively determine truths about the world by the diligent application of the scientific method and empirical enquiry: 100%
    The universe is entirely natural in its formation and operation: 99.999%
    The Big Bang is a largely accurate description of the early periods of the universe: 99%
    We and all life evolved from earlier forms: 100%
    Natural selection is the primary mechanism for evolution: 98%
    Current theories of evolution and ideas about how exactly organisms are related entirely correct in every detail: 0%

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-06-2011 3:01 AM Butterflytyrant has seen this message but not replied

      
    Pressie
    Member
    Posts: 2103
    From: Pretoria, SA
    Joined: 06-18-2010


    Message 5 of 46 (623128)
    07-08-2011 9:17 AM


    Butterflytyrant writes:
    Describe which type of creation you believe brought the universe into existence.
    I don’t know as I am not an expert on those theories. The confidence I have that the scientific method is the best way to provide answers, is 100%, as it has proved itself to be the most reliable method in describing reality.
    Butterflytyrant writes:
    Examples of possible answers are the Big Bang and Evolution,
    All the evidence we currently have tell us that the universe, the earth and life itself is a result of natural processes. My confidence in telling all those hundreds of thousands of trained scientists that they all are wrong is 0%. My confidence in accepting their findings, 100%.
    Butterflytyrant writes:
    Young Earth Creation,
    0%, as it has been proven wrong, millions of times. Please take note, YEC has been proven wrong. In my field, we have lots of evidence that the earth is older that 6000 years. I’m 100% confident in that.
    Butterflytyrant writes:
    Old Earth Creation, ID or any other interpretation of the scripture. Be as detailed as you like.
    0%. There’s absolutely no empirical evidence for a designer or god or any kind of supernatural agent. The qualities that we are told a creator should have (as described in holy books), are not evidenced in reality. What we experience in life indicates the opposite of what all these religions claim a designer or creator or their gods or whatever should be like.
    Butterflytyrant writes:
    Expressed as a percentage, what is your confidence factor that your belief is correct, where 100% expresses complete certainty and 0% expresses no certainty at all.
    99.9999%. Maybe some aliens made the world for us together with the evidence that we evolved. I give this a 0.0001% chance. We’re still looking for evidence that aliens exist and as no qualities that contradict reality have been ascribed to aliens, we can’t be sure whether a specific alien exists or not.

      
    Jon
    Inactive Member


    Message 6 of 46 (623136)
    07-08-2011 10:00 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Butterflytyrant
    07-06-2011 3:01 AM


    Expressed as a percentage, how sure are you that your particular version of creation is correct? This is open to all. Whether it be the Big Bang and Evolution, Young Earth Creation, Old Earth Creation, ID or any other interpretation of the scripture.
    Big Bang? About 7%
    Evolution? About 12% or so.
    The second part of the question is - expressed as a percentage, how many people who share your particular faith (or perceived scientific theory like evolution, ID etc) share your version or interpretation of that faith (or scientific theory etc)?
    Unknown. My information on these theories is entirely derived from third-, fourth-, or even seventh-hand sources. I would assume, then, that there are many who share my version of these theories, save for minor discrepancies.
    Jon

    Love your enemies!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-06-2011 3:01 AM Butterflytyrant has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 7 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-08-2011 10:29 AM Jon has replied

      
    Butterflytyrant
    Member (Idle past 4422 days)
    Posts: 415
    From: Australia
    Joined: 06-28-2011


    Message 7 of 46 (623142)
    07-08-2011 10:29 AM
    Reply to: Message 6 by Jon
    07-08-2011 10:00 AM


    Hello John,
    Out of curiosity, you advised that you are not very sure of your chosen version of creation, Big bang and Evolution 7% and 12% respectively.
    What makes up the remainder?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by Jon, posted 07-08-2011 10:00 AM Jon has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 8 by jar, posted 07-08-2011 11:21 AM Butterflytyrant has replied
     Message 13 by Jon, posted 07-08-2011 6:17 PM Butterflytyrant has seen this message but not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 8 of 46 (623154)
    07-08-2011 11:21 AM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Butterflytyrant
    07-08-2011 10:29 AM


    That's really easy. The balance is filled with doubt.

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-08-2011 10:29 AM Butterflytyrant has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 9 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-08-2011 11:33 AM jar has replied

      
    Butterflytyrant
    Member (Idle past 4422 days)
    Posts: 415
    From: Australia
    Joined: 06-28-2011


    Message 9 of 46 (623155)
    07-08-2011 11:33 AM
    Reply to: Message 8 by jar
    07-08-2011 11:21 AM


    Hello Jar,
    It may not be all doubt.
    Consider the difference between these three possible replies (there are others of course)
    1. 7 % BB, 12 % ToE the remainder being doubt
    2. 7 % BB, 12 % ToE the remainder being 18% creationism and doubt
    3. 7 % BB, 12 % ToE the remainder being 10% Hindu teachings, 6% ID and the remainder doubt.
    The three answer would make a very different person. This is why I asked.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by jar, posted 07-08-2011 11:21 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 10 by jar, posted 07-08-2011 11:48 AM Butterflytyrant has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 10 of 46 (623157)
    07-08-2011 11:48 AM
    Reply to: Message 9 by Butterflytyrant
    07-08-2011 11:33 AM


    Only 100%
    You seem to think that things like beliefs can add up to 100%.
    Why would that be true?
    Why not 90% Hindu plus 90% Abrahamic plus 90% science pluse 90% Buddhist?

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 9 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-08-2011 11:33 AM Butterflytyrant has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 16 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-10-2011 7:54 PM jar has replied

      
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 6408
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 5.1


    Message 11 of 46 (623186)
    07-08-2011 2:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Butterflytyrant
    07-06-2011 3:01 AM


    Describe which type of creation you believe brought the universe into existence. Examples of possible answers are the Big Bang and Evolution, Young Earth Creation, Old Earth Creation, ID or any other interpretation of the scripture.
    Unknown.
    The Big Bang is not really a theory of creation. Rather, it is a proposed account of the early universe.
    I am quite certain that young earth creationism is made up nonsense.
    For life: I expect that it came into existence by means of purely natural processes. However, my probability would be less than 100%, though hard to quantify. Note that evolution is not a theory of creation; it is a theory of how life developed and changed, after it already existed.
    The neo-Darwinist account - 0%. Sure, mutation and natural selection are part of the story. But there are also horizontal gene transfer, symbiotic unions, perhaps genome reorganization; neo-Darwinism either omits those or crudely lumps them together as mutation (depending on how you interpret the theory), and that does not satisfy me.
    As for how many of the people I know share my view - probably none other than myself, and in a year or two I might have modified my own view anyway. I don't go around asking others of their beliefs on such matters. My best guess is that most would broadly share the consensus scientific view.
    Edited by nwr, : No reason given.

    Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

    This message is a reply to:
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    GDR
    Member
    Posts: 6202
    From: Sidney, BC, Canada
    Joined: 05-22-2005
    Member Rating: 1.9


    Message 12 of 46 (623202)
    07-08-2011 3:36 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Butterflytyrant
    07-06-2011 3:01 AM


    Evolution 75%
    Big Bang 75%
    In both of these cases I have no particular personal understanding but I have confidence in those that do.
    That we are here because of a pre-existant intelligence 99.273%
    The idea that we exist and have wisdom because of incredibly good naturalistic fortune just isn't credible IMHO.

    Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-06-2011 3:01 AM Butterflytyrant has not replied

      
    Jon
    Inactive Member


    Message 13 of 46 (623224)
    07-08-2011 6:17 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Butterflytyrant
    07-08-2011 10:29 AM


    Out of curiosity, you advised that you are not very sure of your chosen version of creation, Big bang and Evolution 7% and 12% respectively.
    What makes up the remainder?
    Like jar said: doubt. If we are measuring certainty, then I am 7% certain of the Big Bang and about 93% uncertain.
    From Message 9:
    It may not be all doubt.
    Consider the difference between these three possible replies (there are others of course)
    1. 7 % BB, 12 % ToE the remainder being doubt
    2. 7 % BB, 12 % ToE the remainder being 18% creationism and doubt
    3. 7 % BB, 12 % ToE the remainder being 10% Hindu teachings, 6% ID and the remainder doubt.
    BB and ToE are two separate theories. We are measuring the amount of certainty in each theory; the figure will be independent for each one. The theories I mentioned are the two in which I have the greatest amount of certainty. For example, I am less than 0.001% certain of Creationism (especially the Biblical variety) for the origin of the Universe, and effectively 0% certain of Creationism as a theory describing the origin of the variety of species on Earth.
    You really need to compare confidence in different theories to get a good understanding of the various mentalities out there on the issue.
    Jon

    Love your enemies!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-08-2011 10:29 AM Butterflytyrant has seen this message but not replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 8513
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 5.3


    Message 14 of 46 (623254)
    07-08-2011 10:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Butterflytyrant
    07-06-2011 3:01 AM


    Confidence level in
    Big Bang Theory: 95%
    Theory of Evolution: 99+%
    Of those who have high confidence levels (over 50%) in the above I would guess 90% have similar, if not the same, understanding of what these theories present.
    Sorry about the third question. Admin made changes without my knowledge that did not match my intent or the questions I asked.
    Confidence level that there should be a rule that forum moderators will not, under any circumstances, change a member's post without the member's knowledge and permission: 100%
    Confidence level that, after the last such occurrance, Admin would institute such a rule: 80%
    Confidence level that, after this present occurrance, Admin would institute such a rule: 40%
    Am I the only one who sees this as a major issue?
    [size=6]        OFF TOPIC![/size]
    
    [size=5]          Do Not Respond![/size]
    
    [size=4]Violators will be fiercely eye-balled![/size]
    Edited by AZPaul3, : Off topic warning

    This message is a reply to:
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    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 22392
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 5.3


    Message 15 of 46 (623298)
    07-09-2011 7:39 AM


    My confidence level that life and the universe (and all the rest of existence if there is more than one universe) arose by purely natural means: 100%
    My confidence level in any particular theory about the natural world depends upon the evidence.
    My confidence level that evolution happened, that life changed over time: 100%
    My confidence level that descent with modification combined with natural selection played a very significant role in evolution: 100%
    My confidence level that this universe began from a little speck and passed through a period of rapid expansion known as the big bang: not quantitatively expressible because I think there is too much that we do not know. We still know very little about dark matter and dark energy, and the matter and energy we can see is apparently only a small portion of the total universe. Until a decade or two ago we didn't even know the expansion of the universe was accelerating. How could our theories about the origin of the universe be accurate when we know so little about so much?
    --Percy

      
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