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Author Topic:   Who designed the ID designer(s)?
Larni
Member
Posts: 3943
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 316 of 396 (621822)
06-29-2011 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 312 by Chuck77
06-29-2011 3:25 AM


Re: A form of faith
So what if it takes faith to agree with ID,

If it takes faith then it is not science. This is a science thread (as Percy pointed out up thread).

If you need to invoke faith what does that tell you about the scientific validity of I.D. being under the aegis of the scientific method?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Chuck77, posted 06-29-2011 3:25 AM Chuck77 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Chuck77, posted 06-29-2011 6:51 AM Larni has responded

    
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 317 of 396 (621828)
06-29-2011 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by Larni
06-29-2011 5:44 AM


Re: A form of faith
Larni writes:

If it takes faith then it is not science. This is a science thread (as Percy pointed out up thread).

Im sorry Larni, I think you're confused. Read the OP before you comment. This isn't MY thread topic, it's RAZD's. HIS OP is what I was reponding to, AS he asked me to do. Maybe you should take it up with RAZD as to WHY this topic is in the SCIENCE section.

Make sense?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Larni, posted 06-29-2011 5:44 AM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by Larni, posted 06-29-2011 10:49 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 318 of 396 (621829)
06-29-2011 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 315 by Nuggin
06-29-2011 5:29 AM


Re: More Creationist idiocy
Nuggin writes:

And you seem like a moron, but I was willing to keep it civil until you spouted off.

The fact of the matter is this, the "V" in EVC is "versus".

If you don't want to have your beliefs confronted, DON'T POST THEM.

It's really simple. It's PAINFULLY simple.

If you shut up and go away, you'll never hear from anyone who disagrees with you. If you want to stick around, then you are going to have to put up with people who are unwilling to let you say stupid things without calling you on it.

It's your choice.

PAINFULLY OFF TOPIC-YET AGAIN-PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS GIBBERISH AS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP, AS OPPOSED TO MY COMMENT WHICH ACTUALLY DID.

SINCERLY, COMMON SENSE


This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by Nuggin, posted 06-29-2011 5:29 AM Nuggin has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by Percy, posted 06-29-2011 8:49 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 15646
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 319 of 396 (621833)
06-29-2011 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 315 by Nuggin
06-29-2011 5:29 AM


Re: More Creationist idiocy
Hi Nuggin,

I was hoping to participate in this thread rather than moderate, so as a participate I'll just briefly say that I think you're a bit over the top regarding rule 10 of the Forum Guidelines.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by Nuggin, posted 06-29-2011 5:29 AM Nuggin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by Nuggin, posted 06-29-2011 10:44 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15646
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 320 of 396 (621835)
06-29-2011 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 318 by Chuck77
06-29-2011 6:55 AM


Re: More Creationist idiocy
Hi Chuck,

You can report any problems you encounter during discussion to the Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 thread. In this case there's no need to do that, moderators are already aware, and there's no need to take moderation into your own hands.

As long as I'm replying to you I'll spill my own 2 cents, but it just echos what others have already said. If you accept ID as a matter of faith, and if you don't think it should be taught in science class, then I don't think many would have any problem with that. But if you not only accept ID as a matter of faith but also think it is science deserving of attention in public school science classrooms, as Dover, Pennsylvania, did back in 2004, then all science minded folk would have a big problem with this, and would push you to describe ID's qualifications as science.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by Chuck77, posted 06-29-2011 6:55 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

    
Nuggin
Member
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 321 of 396 (621859)
06-29-2011 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 319 by Percy
06-29-2011 8:42 AM


Re: More Creationist idiocy
Percy, I responded _in kind_.

I notice that in your response to Chuck, not only didn't you complain about him calling me a dick, you and I are presenting the same basic argument.

... But if you not only accept ID as a matter of faith but also think it is science deserving of attention in public school science classrooms..., then all science minded folk would have a big problem with this, and would push you to describe ID's qualifications as science.

If his response to you was this:

You seem like a real D**K to attack me like that. You get off on it?

Would you say that he was being respectful? Doubt it.

I have no problem with you jumping in to keep stuff on course or civil, just don't turn a blind eye to the Creationists just because they claim that Jesus made them do it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by Percy, posted 06-29-2011 8:42 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by Percy, posted 06-29-2011 11:30 AM Nuggin has not yet responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3943
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 322 of 396 (621861)
06-29-2011 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by Chuck77
06-29-2011 6:51 AM


Danger Will Robinson! Faith in a science forum!
No, you seem to be the one who is confused.

RAZD is asking for scientific evidence as he posted it in the science forum.

You provided non-scientifc evidence i.e. faith.

That was my point.

Make sense?

Edited by Larni, : Make sense?
Snappy title.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Chuck77, posted 06-29-2011 6:51 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15646
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 323 of 396 (621874)
06-29-2011 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by Nuggin
06-29-2011 10:44 AM


Re: More Creationist idiocy
Nuggin writes:

If his response to you was this:

You seem like a real D**K to attack me like that. You get off on it?

Good point, sorry, I didn't notice that. I just didn't want to see the thread spiral out of control.

Maybe people use the Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 thread so little because it feels like tattling, but I wish they'd use it more. Or PM a moderator or moderators.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by Nuggin, posted 06-29-2011 10:44 AM Nuggin has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11540
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 324 of 396 (621875)
06-29-2011 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by RAZD
06-24-2011 9:56 PM


Re: Still a form of faith & restatement of topic
Hi again Catholic Scientist, thanks.

No problem, RAZD, I hope all is well.

Faith, by definition, is believing something without evidence or proof:

Ergo, if someone accepted ID from evidence or proof, then it would not be faith.

I agree with you that ID is taken on faith, but I disagree that it must be.

Do you accept that it is possible for someone to arrive at ID without faith? Regardless of if this has been shown to have happened or not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by RAZD, posted 06-24-2011 9:56 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by Theodoric, posted 06-29-2011 12:50 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 347 by RAZD, posted 07-05-2011 9:07 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 325 of 396 (621890)
06-29-2011 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by New Cat's Eye
06-29-2011 11:33 AM


Re: Still a form of faith & restatement of topic
Do you accept that it is possible for someone to arrive at ID without faith?

That would mean they have evidence. Which as of yet no one has provided.

So no they can not arrive at ID without faith.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2011 11:33 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 326 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2011 1:02 PM Theodoric has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11540
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 326 of 396 (621895)
06-29-2011 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by Theodoric
06-29-2011 12:50 PM


Re: Still a form of faith & restatement of topic
Do you accept that it is possible for someone to arrive at ID without faith?

That would mean they have evidence. Which as of yet no one has provided.
So no they can not arrive at ID without faith.

You're such an idiot. I wrote:

quote:
Do you accept that it is possible for someone to arrive at ID without faith? Regardless of if this has been shown to have happened or not.

And you reply with: "no, it hasn't been shown"

You have got to be trolling!

But anyways,

They have provided the evidence. We've seen it here where people have expressed that when they see all the beauty in the world they are convinced that it must have been designed. That is their evidence and they are comming to a conclusion. That is not a position of faith.

That you don't consider that to be good evidnce doesn't undermine the fact that they are not reaching their position through faith.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by Theodoric, posted 06-29-2011 12:50 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by Theodoric, posted 06-29-2011 4:37 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 327 of 396 (621933)
06-29-2011 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by New Cat's Eye
06-29-2011 1:02 PM


Re: Still a form of faith & restatement of topic
First of all .

Go screw yourself. If you do not want to have an honest debate with me, ignore me.

Your whole premise is ridiculous. You might as well ask if it is possible for someone to come to an irrational belief without it being irrational if there is any chance there might be some sort of evidence in the future.

How the hell can you qualify your first statement with the second and still expect the first to have any meaning?

Can you try some honest debate instead of making personal attacks against people that do not agree with you?

They have provided the evidence. We've seen it here where people have expressed that when they see all the beauty in the world they are convinced that it must have been designed. That is their evidence and they are comming to a conclusion. That is not a position of faith.

Bullshit. It is a statement of faith.

You are equivocating the word evidence. Give the definition you are using. Because it certainly isn't a scientific definition of the word evidence. Their evidence is faith.

That you don't consider that to be good evidnce doesn't undermine the fact that they are not reaching their position through faith.

More bullshit and equivocating.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2011 1:02 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 328 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2011 4:50 PM Theodoric has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11540
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 328 of 396 (621938)
06-29-2011 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by Theodoric
06-29-2011 4:37 PM


Re: Still a form of faith & restatement of topic
If you do not want to have an honest debate with me, ignore me.Can you try some honest debate instead of making personal attacks against people that do not agree with you?

Not when they're idiots like you.

Bullshit. It is a statement of faith.

Nuh-uh!

You are equivocating the word evidence. Give the definition you are using. Because it certainly isn't a scientific definition of the word evidence. Their evidence is faith.

Evidence is something that can be used to form a conclusion that is not based on faith. Faith is accepting a position without evidence.

If the IDist reached a conclusion from some evidence, then they are not accepting the position without evidence and they are not using faith.

This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Theodoric, posted 06-29-2011 4:37 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by Theodoric, posted 06-29-2011 5:06 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 329 of 396 (621944)
06-29-2011 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by New Cat's Eye
06-29-2011 4:50 PM


Catholic Scientist again resorts to personal attacks
Not when they're idiots like you.

Evidently personal attacks makes you feel like a man or something. You might want to quit acting like a middle schooler.

Evidence is something that can be used to form a conclusion that is not based on faith. Faith is accepting a position without evidence.

If the IDist reached a conclusion from some evidence, then they are not accepting the position without evidence and they are not using faith.

This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Well it seems you will take any personal attestation as evidence. Your whole argument shows why ID is not scientific and is taken by faith alone. Your claims of there being evidence are in fact just redefinitions of the word evidence in order to say it is not a faith proposition. I grasp the concept. It is just that the concept id ridiculous.

Mods - Are their no penalties for personal attacks? What happens if I respond in kind? As you can see, again, I have done nothing to provoke such venomous attacks. Can someone please request that CS respond to the arguments only instead of making an attack in every response to me.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2011 4:50 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2011 5:24 PM Theodoric has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11540
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 330 of 396 (621956)
06-29-2011 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Theodoric
06-29-2011 5:06 PM


Evidently personal attacks makes you feel like a man or something. You might want to quit acting like a middle schooler.

Nah, its just that when dealing with idiots I would rather make responding a little more enjoyable to myself by making fun of them.

If you can't handle it, as you said you are free to ignore me.

Well it seems you will take any personal attestation as evidence.

That doesn't follow at all, stupid.

Your whole argument shows why ID is not scientific and is taken by faith alone. Your claims of there being evidence are in fact just redefinitions of the word evidence in order to say it is not a faith proposition.

The definition of faith is not "accepting something without scientific evidence" so it is you who is misusing the terms.

Mods - Are their no penalties for personal attacks? What happens if I respond in kind? As you can see, again, I have done nothing to provoke such venomous attacks. Can someone please request that CS respond to the arguments only instead of making an attack in every response to me.

Now who's acting like a middle schooler...

Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. You gonna go home and eat some baby food, crybaby?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Theodoric, posted 06-29-2011 5:06 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 9:44 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
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