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Author Topic:   Who designed the ID designer(s)?
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3819
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 331 of 396 (621996)
06-30-2011 12:05 AM


The big warning - Be nice
Everybody, be nice and proper in your message content, or I may find the need to slap you into next week (aka, a big suspension).

If you're late in seeing this message and you do wrong, better get on that edit button.

Adminnemooseus (in the hair trigger mode)


Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 10:27 AM Adminnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 332 of 396 (622041)
06-30-2011 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by New Cat's Eye
06-29-2011 5:24 PM


CS writes:

Theodoric writes:

Well it seems you will take any personal attestation as evidence.

That doesn't follow at all, stupid.

Classic. No response to the point just a personal attack.

The definition of faith is not "accepting something without scientific evidence" so it is you who is misusing the terms.

You may have noticed if you had actually read my posts that I am not arguing the definition of Faith, I am claiming you are not adequately defining Evidence. Without knowing how you define the word Evidence your argument is meaningless.

Now who's acting like a middle schooler...

Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. You gonna go home and eat some baby food, crybaby?

The schoolyard bully returns. You will notice most of us try to keep this a civil forum. When a bully like you shows up the only recourse is to go to the admins. I will not be abused, physically or verbally, by anyone, without taking the necessary recourse's available to me in order to end it.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2011 5:24 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 10:26 AM Theodoric has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11683
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 333 of 396 (622052)
06-30-2011 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by Theodoric
06-30-2011 9:44 AM


Classic. No response to the point just a personal attack.

I simply feel no need nor desire to specifcally address any complete nonsequitor thrown my way. Especially from an overly intelligent person like yourself (who should know better).

You may have noticed if you had actually read my posts that I am not arguing the definition of Faith, I am claiming you are not adequately defining Evidence. Without knowing how you define the word Evidence your argument is meaningless.

Wrong again, you beautiful genius.

Speakers of english can use the word "evidence" in its colloquial sense and get an understanding of my position.

The crux of the argument relies on what is meant by Faith, which you have wrong because of your misuse of the term "Evidence". I simply skipped right to the crux.

Since you're such an honorable person, I'll just wait for when you go back and re-address my position that is still there waiting instead of taking this further into the wrong direction.

But thank you for spending your valuable time on me, especially for being such a wonderful person as yourself, you must have so many better things to do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 9:44 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 11:35 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11683
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 334 of 396 (622053)
06-30-2011 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by Adminnemooseus
06-30-2011 12:05 AM


Re: The big warning - Be nice
The schoolyard bully returns.

When a bully like you shows up...

FYI, These two personal insults in particular really hurt my feelings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Adminnemooseus, posted 06-30-2011 12:05 AM Adminnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


(1)
Message 335 of 396 (622057)
06-30-2011 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by New Cat's Eye
06-30-2011 10:26 AM


Speakers of english can use the word "evidence" in its colloquial sense and get an understanding of my position.

Exactly my point. Funny how you still refuse to define how you use the word evidence.

Just because you are using the word in this manner does not mean iit is not a statement of faith.

According to you all these are valid uses of evidence.

The bible is evidence for a great flood.
Unexplainable lights are evidence of extraterrestrial visitations by Aliens.
Visions are evidence of ghosts and the afterlife.

These are similar uses of evidence as your argument that belief in ID might not be based solely on faith.

Finally, I knew I could count on you to lower the bar even further.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 10:26 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 12:08 PM Theodoric has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11683
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 336 of 396 (622063)
06-30-2011 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Theodoric
06-30-2011 11:35 AM


According to you all these are valid uses of evidence.

The bible is evidence for a great flood.
Unexplainable lights are evidence of extraterrestrial visitations by Aliens.
Visions are evidence of ghosts and the afterlife.

These are similar uses of evidence as your argument that belief in ID might not be based solely on faith.

Exactly! What's so hard to understand about that?

If some dude sees some lights in the sky and thinks they're aliens and comes to the conclusion that aliens exist, then it would be wrong to say that he has faith that aliens exist.

He was convinced that aliens exist from evidence.

That you don't want to consider that evidence, or that you want to call that bad evidence, is beside the point that he, himself, is not holding his position on faith but has come to a conclusion from something he observed.

Funny how you still refuse to define how you use the word evidence.

Just look it up in a dictionary...

Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 11:35 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 1:43 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 337 of 396 (622075)
06-30-2011 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by New Cat's Eye
06-30-2011 12:08 PM


The evidence does not lead to the conclusion
If some dude sees some lights in the sky and thinks they're aliens and comes to the conclusion that aliens exist, then it would be wrong to say that he has faith that aliens exist.

Not at all. His belief is based upon a false interpretation of evidence. It is the fallacy of non-sequitur. The evidence does not support the belief. The evidence does not in any way support the conclusion. In most cases the evidence has nothing to do with the conclusion. Therefore, if the evidence does not support the conclusion, then the conclusion is based upon faith not evidence.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 12:08 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 2:22 PM Theodoric has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11683
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 338 of 396 (622077)
06-30-2011 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Theodoric
06-30-2011 1:43 PM


Re: The evidence does not lead to the conclusion
Not at all. His belief is based upon a false interpretation of evidence. It is the fallacy of non-sequitur. The evidence does not support the belief. The evidence does not in any way support the conclusion. In most cases the evidence has nothing to do with the conclusion. Therefore, if the evidence does not support the conclusion, then the conclusion is based upon faith not evidence.

Absolutely not. Whether or not you have faith is not defined by the quality of the evidence, just whether you have any or not.

Even a conclusion arrived at from bad evidence, or even poor logic, is still a position that was not arrived at via faith.

His belief is based upon a false interpretation of evidence. It is the fallacy of non-sequitur. The evidence does not support the belief.

It doesn't matter because the evidence convinced him, and he is the one holding the position... a position he did not use faith to arrive at, a position he concluded from bad evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 1:43 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 2:26 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 341 by Modulous, posted 06-30-2011 2:53 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 339 of 396 (622079)
06-30-2011 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by New Cat's Eye
06-30-2011 2:22 PM


Re: The evidence does not lead to the conclusion
a position he did not use faith to arrive at, a position he concluded from bad evidence.

In ID faith is what makes them willing to accept the bad evidence. Also with the other examples it is a faith based conclusion.

Gee a response without any attacks, bullying and general all around assholishness. I knew you could do it.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 2:22 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 2:31 PM Theodoric has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11683
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 340 of 396 (622081)
06-30-2011 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Theodoric
06-30-2011 2:26 PM


Re: The evidence does not lead to the conclusion
In ID faith is what makes them willing to accept the bad evidence.

How do you know that it isn't just plain stupidity? You can't read minds.

Also with the other examples it is a faith based conclusion.

It most certainly can be, no doubt. My contention is against the position that it must be.

Gee a response without any attacks, bullying and general all around assholishness. I knew you could do it.

I do it all the time. I already explained to you that its your stupid idiocy that requires me making fun of you in order to have any desire to reply.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 2:26 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 3:13 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7422
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 341 of 396 (622083)
06-30-2011 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by New Cat's Eye
06-30-2011 2:22 PM


a quick note on faith
Even a conclusion arrived at from bad evidence, or even poor logic, is still a position that was not arrived at via faith.

What does it mean to arrive a position via faith?

You can take the claim of the truth of a position on faith.

You can also make a leap of faith when there is insufficient evidence to know something.

You can have faith in something for which there is no evidence, but it is more common to have faith in something for which there is some evidence but not a sufficient amount to know it. Even if you want to argue that 'religious faith' must be without any evidence (and often people will claims subjective or anecdotal evidence in support of their religious faith which would undercut even that argument), religion does not have a monopoly on faith.

But I think more to the point, how important is this point?

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 2:22 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 3:02 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11683
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 342 of 396 (622084)
06-30-2011 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Modulous
06-30-2011 2:53 PM


Re: a quick note on faith
But I think more to the point, how important is this point?

I don't think its important at all, nor do I see why it would be contentious.

Does the ID position have to have faith? No, it doesn't have to. BFD.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Modulous, posted 06-30-2011 2:53 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 343 of 396 (622085)
06-30-2011 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by New Cat's Eye
06-30-2011 2:31 PM


The personal attacks continue
I already explained to you that its your stupid idiocy

And it continues.

Let everyone be aware that if you do not agree with CS you are a stupid idiot.

Edited by Theodoric, : new subtitle


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 2:31 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2011 3:16 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11683
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 344 of 396 (622086)
06-30-2011 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by Theodoric
06-30-2011 3:13 PM


When you can't defend your position anymore just avoid discussing it.

Let everyone be aware that if you do not agree with CS you are a stupid idiot.

I've disagreed with tons of people without thinking they're stupid idiots... except for the ones who are stupid idiots.

Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2011 3:13 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12523
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 345 of 396 (622145)
07-01-2011 5:57 AM


Theodoric and Catholic Scientist
Your posting permissions in this forum have been rescinded.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

    
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