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Author Topic:   The Ultimate Question - Why is there something rather than nothing?
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4532 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 11 of 366 (624853)
07-20-2011 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by AZPaul3
07-20-2011 11:12 AM


Re: Two Speculations
I personally favor Speculation #1. If there are an infinite number of ways for there to be something, but only one way for there to be nothing, then it's just more probable for the universe - or at least some universe or other - to exist than not.
Besides, if I remember correctly, there's so little matter in the universe and so much empty space that effectively, the universe doesn't exist.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 07-20-2011 11:12 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4532 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 23 of 366 (624929)
07-20-2011 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by bluegenes
07-20-2011 1:17 PM


Re: Self-inconsistent?
bluegenes writes:
To put it another way, wouldn't nothingness involve the absence of everything? But isn't absence a state, meaning that in nothingness something is present? Therefore, not everything is absent.
If you can imagine even an absence of absence, I think that that would come pretty close to the idea of true nothing.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by bluegenes, posted 07-20-2011 1:17 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by bluegenes, posted 07-20-2011 5:55 PM ZenMonkey has not replied

ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4532 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 26 of 366 (624937)
07-20-2011 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dr Adequate
07-20-2011 1:58 AM


Specify.
Which of Aristotle's four causes are you asking about? If you're asking about the efficient cause, then that's a physics question, I suppose, and you can assume natural, unguided forces are sufficient. If you're asking about final cause, that's going to have to assume a creator or at least some extrinsic purpose to the universe. An atheist isn't likely to grant that as a necessary or even justifiable assumption.
Since I love examples, let's try this one. You can answer the question "Why does it rain?" by referring to the efficient cause: the precipitation cycle. But if you want to go for the final cause, you'd have to come up with something like: "Because God wants the plants to grow."
At least that's the way I see it.
For reference:
quote:
There are four such causes: the form of the object (which will be altered during a change), the matter underlying the object (which will usually not be altered during a change), the agency that brings about the change, and the purpose served by the change. These are called, respectively, the formal cause, the material cause, the efficient cause, and the final cause.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-20-2011 1:58 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

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