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Author Topic:   Why Creationists' Willful Ignorance?
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1021 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 106 of 182 (629176)
08-16-2011 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by caffeine
08-16-2011 9:02 AM


Re: "Popular" arguments
Even if one gives your own figures benefit of the doubt, we have a vacuum for some 30 to 50K years. Nor do you any proof whatsoever the world's population today is not represented by 'historical research and recorded evidence'.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by caffeine, posted 08-16-2011 9:02 AM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by caffeine, posted 08-16-2011 9:37 AM IamJoseph has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 1066 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 107 of 182 (629178)
08-16-2011 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 8:07 AM


Re: more of the same from IamJoseph
IamJoseph writes:

'Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.'
That says a transit sea life form can adapt to a bird - the word 'and' indicates that.


Do you need more time to answer the question?

Where do mosquitoes fit into your 'kinds'?
Are they land kind; are they water kind or are the airborne kind?

{abe}
I think I will just focus on this very simple question.
I will continue to ask it until you answer it.
To give you a clue: the answer is either 'Land', 'Water' or 'Airborne'.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 8:07 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 9:25 AM Panda has responded

Panda
Member (Idle past 1066 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 108 of 182 (629179)
08-16-2011 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 8:12 AM


Re: more of the same from IamJoseph
IamJoseph writes:

Do you require more time to admit the first listing of life form groupings is Genesis?


Do you need more time to show where you plucked the sentence: "A SEED SHALL FOLLOW ITS OWN KIND" from?
Are you quoting the bible?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 8:12 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 9:36 AM Panda has not yet responded

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1021 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 109 of 182 (629181)
08-16-2011 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Panda
08-16-2011 9:16 AM


Re: more of the same from IamJoseph
How about 'winged creatures.'

You have not admitted it, but your question itself affirms by default where the first recording of life form groupings comes from. Nor has the issue been accepted the category of terrain and habitat is the most fundamental segregation factor within life form groupings.

Anti-creationism is becoming like a theological system with sacred pillars and an old man with a white beard called 'evolution'. I am being treated as a non-believer and should be sent to hell, right?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Panda, posted 08-16-2011 9:16 AM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Panda, posted 08-16-2011 11:58 AM IamJoseph has responded

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1021 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 110 of 182 (629182)
08-16-2011 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Panda
08-16-2011 9:20 AM


Re: more of the same from IamJoseph
quote:
Do you need more time to show where you plucked the sentence: "A SEED SHALL FOLLOW ITS OWN KIND" from?
Are you quoting the bible?

I paraphrased it. But as you can see, Genesis says it much better, even expanding the process, which includes the transmitted attribute of the offspring to emulate the host parent via the seed factor. It is very excellently phrased from both a literary and technical POV; also note the order of earth sprouting grass and earth hugging herbs, which contain and issue out [yield] the seed [a core essence of data for a specific life form contained within a combined sperm and egg], then the raised trees:

quote:

'Let the earth put forth grass, herb yielding seed, and fruit-tree bearing fruit after its kind, wherein is the seed thereof, upon the earth.'



This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Panda, posted 08-16-2011 9:20 AM Panda has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1215
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 111 of 182 (629183)
08-16-2011 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 9:10 AM


Re: "Popular" arguments
Even if one gives your own figures benefit of the doubt, we have a vacuum for some 30 to 50K years.

The specific figures don't matter. All you need to do is accept the point that birth/death ratios can change, and thus there is no steady rate of growth which we should always expect to apply.

The fact that Australia, before the coming of agriculture, couldn't supply enough food or water to support 5 trillion people is surely obvious. It couldn't do so now. It doesn't matter how high a population's birth rate is; it doesn't matter if every fertile woman spends all her time pumping out babies as fast as she can manage; if there's not enough food or water for all these extra people, they will just die or starvation and thirst. The population will not increase.

What do you mean by 'a vacuum of some 30 to 50k years'?

Nor do you any proof whatsoever the world's population today is not represented by 'historical research and recorded evidence'.

No idea what to make of that sentence. Where are you quoting 'historical research and recorded evidence' from? I didn't write that, nor did anybody else so far in this thread.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 9:10 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 10:00 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 49 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 112 of 182 (629184)
08-16-2011 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 8:57 AM


Re: "Popular" arguments
Well, now we're getting somewhere. I show you where your own argument leads you and you come back with "that does not sound like clean math". Indeed, your argument is not based on "clean math", that's what I've been trying to get across.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 8:57 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1665 days)
Posts: 2962
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 113 of 182 (629189)
08-16-2011 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 5:53 AM


Re: Call 911
Your out done. You cannot admit absolute hard copy proof of the first recording of life form groups, while you leap elsewhere with similar nonsense. The French 30K year claims have been blasted as a forgery. It has red color - a dead giveaway since even te Egyptians never had red dye 5000 years ago - the colors which were on the pyramids were got it from India.

This argument that the world was in black and white prior to the Great Flood is beyond retarded.

Red ocher is and has been a staple for tribal groups going back well before the dawn of time.

The leaps and bounds you would have to go through to disprove the cave paints are so absurdly ridiculous, it is beyond even your extreme capacity for fantasy.

Seriously, you are mentally disturbed. You need PROFESSIONAL help. You are a danger to yourself and others.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 5:53 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Larni, posted 08-16-2011 12:04 PM Nuggin has not yet responded
 Message 133 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 6:24 PM Nuggin has responded

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1021 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 114 of 182 (629190)
08-16-2011 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by caffeine
08-16-2011 9:37 AM


Re: "Popular" arguments
quote:
The specific figures don't matter. All you need to do is accept the point that birth/death ratios can change, and thus there is no steady rate of growth which we should always expect to apply.

The change cannot impact here - it is generic to all periods and thus neutralized. Nor can the change variance be so large for the entire period.

quote:

The fact that Australia, before the coming of agriculture, couldn't supply enough food or water to support 5 trillion people is surely obvious.


This is a myth. Australia is surrounded by H20 and has more water than the middle-east, which is also half desert. Sparse population still cannot justify no evidences at all for 60K years.

quote:

What do you mean by 'a vacuum of some 30 to 50k years'?

I refer to the lack of evidential imprints of humans for 30K years measurable every 100 or every 1000 years. No past imprints can be seen either, thus the estimated period of 50K. One cave painting in France or Australia and nothing else, is like saying a myramid existed in Egypt 30K years ago - and nothing else whatsoever.

quote:

Nor do you any proof whatsoever the world's population today is not represented by 'historical research and recorded evidence'.

No idea what to make of that sentence. Where are you quoting 'historical research and recorded evidence' from? I didn't write that, nor did anybody else so far in this thread.


We have recorded, measurable and traceable accounts of the human population the last 6000 years. I say this is the only correct yardstick for measuring population growth; the rest being fantasy and conjecture.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by caffeine, posted 08-16-2011 9:37 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Nuggin, posted 08-16-2011 10:24 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1665 days)
Posts: 2962
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 115 of 182 (629191)
08-16-2011 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 5:55 AM



Let someone answer which is the first record of medicine, separating this faculty from the occult, and also introducing the concept of infectious virus, contagious bacteria, quarantine, treatment and ID of malignancies. This will show how ignorant creationists are, right? Have a go!

This claim has already been utterly destroyed by simply directly quoting the Bible's "cures" for disease.

Killing animals does not cure your disease.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 5:55 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1665 days)
Posts: 2962
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 116 of 182 (629192)
08-16-2011 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Pressie
08-16-2011 7:45 AM


Joseph's Black and White Dream Coat
Twenty six thousand years old. In colour. The paintings, not the cave.

Yes, but 26,000 years ago, they weren't in color. Everything back then was black and white until India (WTF?! They worship elephant Gods!) _INVENTED_ the idea of color.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Pressie, posted 08-16-2011 7:45 AM Pressie has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 117 of 182 (629193)
08-16-2011 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Nuggin
08-16-2011 10:00 AM


And very few garments get Leprosy.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Nuggin, posted 08-16-2011 10:00 AM Nuggin has not yet responded

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1665 days)
Posts: 2962
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 118 of 182 (629194)
08-16-2011 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 8:10 AM


Re: "Popular" arguments
Re: "Popular" arguments
Population is based on the time factor, and 60K years would give a population greater than the world by a ratio of ten with compounding increments. The claim is bogus.

No. Population is based on availability of food. It always has been. It always will be.

A population can not exceed it's available food source for any sustained period of time. End of story.

There isn't enough food in pre-aggricultural Australia, to feed trillions, billions or even millions of people.

In the words of the immortal Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.:
"This guy is a fucking *****!"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 8:10 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by subbie, posted 08-16-2011 10:18 AM Nuggin has responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1665 days)
Posts: 2962
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 119 of 182 (629196)
08-16-2011 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 8:24 AM


What do you get when you raise wrong to the 3rd power?
A rational mind would ask rational questions

How would you know?


. If a human 'painted' a ddrawing of what appears a man made item 30,000 years ago, the following rational factors apply:

1. That humans had previous to this time developed speech, language, agriculture and technical know how of color usage [remember the painting has a red domesticated bison]. Maybe 20K years previously. We have no imprints of any of those factors throughout that period of 20K years.

Wrong on so many levels.
#1) NOT a bison. AND, ABSOLUTELY not a "domesticated" bison.
#2) No you do not need to develop agriculture to paint a picture of an animal
#3) We have PLENTY of evidence for speech prior to cave paintings, both implied through cultural context and physical remains which include the necessarily biological components.
#4) People have know how to "use color" FOREVER.
#5) Where are you getting the number "20k"? Why would someone have to have developed any one, let alone ALL, of these things 20k years prior to painting a picture of a bison.


2. The same issue as above is also seen from the 30K point upto the present time: no graduated or any other kind of imprints in 30K years [discounting the last 6000 years which are recorded as history].

Also extremely wrong. We have painting WORLDWIDE demonstrating a wide range of dates.

Hell, the French caves span 10,000+ years of artwork in and of themselves.


3. The last 6000 years says imprints are continuous of a graduating humanity in advancement and population. But we find a great anomoly with a painting falsely promoted as 30K years old - without a shred of rational surrounding evidence.

Except for "reality", but yes, if you reject reality, it's easy to dismiss evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 8:24 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2678
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 120 of 182 (629197)
08-16-2011 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 8:10 AM


Re: "Popular" arguments
Haha so you calim that people would just indefinitively reproduce and the population level would keep growing, whitout the food resources to feed the population, whitout the medical know how to reduce plagues in the population.......

You really must be living in la la land


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 8:10 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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