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Author Topic:   Intelligent Design Class to be taught at Cornell University
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 108 of 168 (307013)
04-27-2006 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by iano
04-27-2006 10:43 AM


Re: Ready, SETI, Stop.
With no idea as to probability/possibility for here it is impossible to say there is a probability/possibility for anywhere else.
We know the possibility for here. It is 100%.
I could understand a person saying there may exist conditions for life arising somewhere else in the universe if it were based on the fact the life arose on earth due to conditions on earth. But that foundational fact hasn't been established.
It doesn't matter why life arose here, it did.
No one can say what the probability is that life arose due to conditions on earth. What is needed to sustain life should not be confused with that which is necessary to cause it to arise. This is something about which we do not know. We don't even know if it is possible for life to arise.
No one cares whether the conditions (which have constantly changed anyway) were the cause. It doesn't matter. Life did arise here and we have a sample to use as a basis. SETI only looks for life that is similar to what we KNOW happened once.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by iano, posted 04-27-2006 10:43 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by iano, posted 04-27-2006 11:27 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 111 of 168 (307025)
04-27-2006 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by iano
04-27-2006 11:27 AM


Re: Pulling rabbits from hats
It is that simple.
This little portion of the thread is dealing with whether SETI is science.
Correct.
Either life arose naturalistically (religious belief currently) or as a result of intelligence (also a religious belief), then the foundation for SETI is religious not scientific.
No, that statement is not correct. The question of how life arose is so far an unknown, and it is also totally immaterial. We know that life did arise. We know what the current conditions are. Those are not religious beliefs. They are facts.
SETI is simply looking for what is familar and known to exist. It is science. There is no religious skeleton.
If so and SETI is still considered scientific then there is no need to produce evidence of God in order to begin to investigate intelligent design on scientific grounds - such as comparing intelligent design markers. The religious undertow is irrelevant to the progression of the science.
Total nonsense. First, ID needs to show some sign that there are any such markers found in lifeforms. They have not done so. If and when ID can show such evidence, it will be considered. Until then, it will and should be ignored as just another crackpot religion.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by iano, posted 04-27-2006 11:27 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by iano, posted 04-27-2006 11:45 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 117 of 168 (307035)
04-27-2006 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by iano
04-27-2006 11:45 AM


Re: Pulling rabbits from hats
But the choices are known. And all are religious.
Totally immaterial and only an incorrect assertion.
Something can be a scienfic pursuit before it finds any evidence of what it is pursuing. Abiogenesis and SETI spring to mind. Would you agree?
No I would not.
SETI KNOWS that what it is searching for exists. We can look around and see it here on earth. SETI is looking for a known.
Abiogenesis is somewhat different. But it too is looking for a known, the FACTs are that life exists and that when we look at the EVIDENCE early life was simpler than current life. We also know that the earth is younger than the Universe, so that there was a time when there was no life on earth. Based on the EVIDENCE it is a reasonable assumption that there was some beginning to life here on earth.
What is missing from ID is any idea of what should be looked for. In addition, it starts with a totally unsupported assertion, one where there is NO evidence, that there is a designer.
Until ID can provide some evidence to support the assertion that there is a Designer it's just another crackpot religion.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by iano, posted 04-27-2006 11:45 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by iano, posted 04-27-2006 12:23 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 122 of 168 (307045)
04-27-2006 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by iano
04-27-2006 12:23 PM


Re: Is science suspended on thin air actually science?
If the foundation of your science is not scientific and this is immaterial then ID can have a slice of the cake too. Why do you say assertion? The only two shows in town that I know of for how life arose are naturalistic and creator originated. Both are religious.
False. And, as I said, totally immaterial.
SETI is looking for ETI and it doesn't know it exists. It has no reason suppose it exists other than on one or other religious ground. You are attempting to suspend the science in mid-air when the scientists themselves have already told us of their religious reasons for doing as they do.
Totally False. Again, you keep making unsupported assertions that there is some religious motivation in Science even when evidence is presented that that is not the case.
Abiogenesis is looking for a naturalistic explanation for life arising. This is religion and the very title of doctrine tells us to what religion it belongs.
Yet another FALSE statement, and yet another unsupported assertion. There is no religion involved in Abiogenesis. It is looking for the steps that lead to life. Where is there any religion involved in that?
What is being looked for is evidence of intelligent design. Design markers would be one area which would give some (even if only partial, theory building) evidence of intelligence at work. This wouldn't demolish ToE, it would just advance ID a notch
That's fine. No one much cares. If and when ID can come up with some evidence, then that evidence can be considered. However it is NOT and cannot be science. It begins with an assumption, that there is a designer. As long as it makes that initial assumption it will remain just another silly crackpot religion.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by iano, posted 04-27-2006 12:23 PM iano has not replied

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