News on Religion in Our Goverments

Good point. I use a broad, too broad for this discussion, daffynition of "citizen". Often, to me, the church is the pastor and the pastor is the church. The bishops in Arti's story are citizens, not their incorporated (or LP or LLP or LLLP) organizations.The "church" does not have a vote. But the priests do (unless they're in jail for child molestation which is very few since they seem to get transferred to other areas and placed in charge of some other Boys Choir before they can be prosecuted).

alright thanks. What churches do that?Glad I'm Roman Catholic, we don't do that crap. We have our own PRIVATE schools to indoctrinate our own people, and we are not creationists to begin with, must be those crazy Protestants. Everyone should be worried of the Sola Scriptura fanatics.

Ahh, thus the "Dislike" on my message. Understood.Off topic, I know, but you guys really gotta do something about those boy-buggering priests.

not sure what can be done; and its a small minority, so to insinuate that as if its all over the church and every priest is suspect, is what I have a problem with, and why I hit the dislike button. You can type the most logical well thought out post, but that snarky off-color jibe at the end is what ruined everything.

Hi Artemis, I dunno. Perhaps they could call the police? Instead of covering it up and then protecting and enabling the abuser by moving him on to new parish and a new set of victims. As the Catholic Church has done in the past.I think that the main point to be understood here is not so much that abuse took place, but that the Church did so little to stop it and in fact made it worse. They should have called in the appropriate authorities, but instead, they chose to cover their own sanctimonious asses.I am angry about the abuse, but I am fucking livid about the cover up and I think that a lot of Catholics feel the same way. Thousands of sincere Catholics placed that which was most precious to them, their children, into the Church's care and the Church rewarded that trust with utter contempt.Mutate and Survive

Yea....the ones directly effected. The rest say "well, it wasn't MY church...."Kinda like Artie is saying....

quote:

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Clergy prayer ban at 9/11 event faulted

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By RACHEL ZOLL, AP Religion Writer — 25 minutes ago

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NEW YORK (AP) Christian conservatives are condemning Mayor Michael Bloomberg's decision to bar clergy-led prayer at the 10th anniversary commemoration of the terrorist attacks, calling the program an insult. Others wonder whether the mayor is trying to dodge the potentially thorny issue of including a Muslim representative.

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The mayor's office says the annual event focuses on relatives of Sept. 11 victims and has never included clergy invocations. Bloomberg has said it would be impossible to include everyone who would like to participate.

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Evelyn Erskine, a Bloomberg spokeswoman, said the program was designed in coordination with 9/11 families and included readings that were "spiritual and personal in nature." Six moments of silence were planned for personal reflection and prayer. Police and fire chaplains who work with the 9/11 families will attend.

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"Rather than have disagreements over which religious leaders participate, we would like to keep the focus of our commemoration ceremony on the family members of those who died," Erskine said.

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Full story...I think Bloomberg made the right choice.

But the Church, as an organization, is complicit. That's the problem. Instead of cleaning its house, the Church has merely whitewashed it. If it was (as I hope it is) a "small minority", and the Church, becoming aware of the problem, had done something about it apart from try to hush it up, then it wouldn't be a scandal against the Church as such.Instead of shooting the messenger, surely there's something lay Catholics such as yourself can do to urge changes in this purely administrative practice of the Church? If you don't like hearing people complain about this stuff, then do something to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I got no problem with that, my problem was the stereotyping of an entire demographic (and the largest Christian church on the planet Earth), based on the actions of a few. If I get robbed by a black man and call all blacks robbers then I would be called a racist. But if you make similar remarks about Catholics based on the actions of a few, then THAT is different!?! I don’t have a double standard, and I won’t allow you to have one either. Not true at all. Catholics are very upset, discusted, and angry about it. Even in very faithful nations like Ireland. It’s a big deal.
I said nothing to the contrary of that, only that AZPaul3 was slandering 1.147 BILLION people, on the actions of a few, and no-one cares. I was just pointing out another horrible double standard that exists here at EvC. Why? I think Bloomberg sucks, and NYC would be better without him.Have you been to ground zero in the last 10 years? I have been twice once in 2005 and once in 2010. Both times the ground zero site has been blocked off and under construction, there really isn’t much to see. If you do want to see something then you had to go to the makeshift memorial and 9/11 museum, across the street (located at 209 broadway). It’s the trinity wall street church (St. Paul’s). I think it’s sad and rude that NYC would accept help from the church in a time of need, and then 10 years later when the time was to commemorate the event, the church is left out. F NYC. Well that’s how the left is I guess. do you consider racists the messenger, or should the blacks get their shit together?Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

What does this have to do with Bloomberg not allowing prayers to be made aloud by clergy?I haven't been to NY in 14 years or so, hope you enjoyed your visits, but what does this have to do with Bloombergs decision? There will be several moments of silence so anyone in attendance can say a SILENT prayer or just remember. How is this bad? Do you just want to argue?

I've noticed you do this on several occasions: if you want to reply to numerous posts....reply to numerous posts, don't lump them all into the same reply."I'll do what I want, don't tell me what to do" in 3...2...1....

I think you might be missing the point, in years past there has been no prayers allowed by any religious group, why start now, how do you choose which ones? Can a Muslim or Jewish prayer also be said, how about a statement from an atheist?Did NYC ask the church for help? Do you know that no Muslim organization offered help or did not help?

No and yes, respectively --- racists are jerks, and everyone should get their shit together.But where your analogy breaks down is that unlike the Roman Catholic Church blacks do not constitute a hierarchical institution with the ability to dismiss or unfrock its members. If they did, I would be asking similar questions. I'd be saying --- why doesn't the Chief Black (the Blope, the Blontiff) give orders to his Blishops to deblackinate any black known to them to be a crack dealer and turn him in to the police instead of just moving him to to a different "turf" where the police don't know him? If they were an institution, and the institution was covering up and protecting its venal members, I'd be criticizing it like I criticize the R.C.C.And for the same reason, when I do criticize the R.C.C. I am not saying a single word against Catholics in general as though they were the blacks of your analogy; nothing I say is an imputation against you or my brother-in-law or any other Catholic not personally complicit; it's the institution that I'm criticizing.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Obviously it had nothing to do with Bloomberg’s decision and that is the problem. I’ll wait for ADIN or MODS to make that call, I think it’s better to have less responses than more responses, as far as being polite/respectful to the site and the people that run it, and the people that use the site. Also, this FIB doesn’t take advice from cheese-heads, ever. In years past what are you talking about? In years past the museum, and memorial have been at an Episcopal Church.
I would let the Episcopalians lead the prayer, as they have been invested sine the 1st plane hit. I don’t care what prayers are said, and who says them. It’s not really charity if you have to ask. I don’t know.

Northern IL born and raised, bitch. I'm no god damn cheese head.What's also funny is how you've not said word one about the firemen or PD being allowed either.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.