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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Occupy Wall Street

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Author Topic:   Occupy Wall Street
GDR
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Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


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Message 102 of 602 (636759)
10-10-2011 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
10-10-2011 4:30 PM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman?
This whole discussion is ideologically driven. I think it is good to stand back and look at some simple truths. Frankly I believe in capitalism but capitalism like any other system requires integrity. The banks, particularly in the US, have acted not only without integrity but fraudulently.
They loaned money out to hapless citizens, (in many cases knowing that when the sub-prime mortgage expired they would be unable to pay it back), then packaged up these loans and sold them to other financial institutions as blue chip loans.
When everything blew up in their faces they then went cap in hand to the same citizens they had mistreated to bail them out of their financial difficulties. The government representing these people had no real choice but to pony up in response to this blackmail as the economic downside was intolerable. While all this is going on, those financiers that were responsible for these reprehensible policies kept raking in salaries and bonuses that are beyond what 99.9% of us can imagine.
I think what the people in the street are asking for is that their government do something or anything that brings integrity and justice to financial institutions.
What else can people do to draw attention to the situation? At least in Canada we had some regulation when it came to our banks and as a result we have what has been noted as the strongest banking system in the world. We did not even come close to having one of our banks fail.
As I said it all comes down to integrity and it seems to be in short supply.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 10-10-2011 4:30 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2011 6:04 PM GDR has replied
 Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 10-11-2011 11:31 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 107 of 602 (636773)
10-10-2011 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by RAZD
10-10-2011 6:04 PM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman? Trickle UP not down! Take care of the PEOPLE
Zen Deist writes:
No, they could have let the banks fail and they could have bailed out the people.
The same amount of money given to the people would have solved both the economic crisis and the social disruption caused by the ripple of mortgage dominoes throughout the economy.
I'm no expert but I would say that sounds good in theory but not in practice. The reason being is that so many people, either through direct employment, investments including pension plans etc had their future tied up in these institutions. I'd also make the observation that governments are not well positioned to dole out money to individuals when it is need and where it is needed. I suppose they could just cut taxes but that won't help those put into bankruptcy by all of this.
I do think that there should have been far more restrictions but on the financial institutions including executive compensation.
Zen Deist writes:
What this was, is simply a lesson in the hard truth of economics: an economy grows from the bottom up, not from the top down. The "Trickle-Down Theory" that conservatives and corporate bobbleheads so like to espouse is a failed theory: the failure happened from the bottom up, and it was no trickle. It happened because trickle down did not occur as promised: the people saw their earnings diminish instead of grow, and then they reached the point where there was no where else to go but failure.
I don't think that we can make any clear cut statements of failed theory. I go back to the simple question of integrity. Frankly I believe, whether through capitalism, socialism or trickle-downism, that the system will work if those with the power are honest, fair and have their interests be about more than their own.
Just the same I thought it was a great post and I’ll give it a thumbs up.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2011 6:04 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2011 10:23 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 113 of 602 (636821)
10-11-2011 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by RAZD
10-11-2011 10:23 AM


Re: Trickle Down Economics is a failed theory.
Hi ZD
Zen Deist writes:
The much trumpeted hoopla touted promised trickle-down failed to get to them in time -- and 6+ terms of presidents is a long time. The trickle of at least some money down should have occurred if the theory had even an iota of reality to it. There was none, in fact the effects at the bottom of the economic pyramid were negative: the gap between rich and poor has increased.
In my post if you look back you can see that I wasn't advocating for any particular economic theory. My point was that regardless of ideology what is most important is that those with the power have integrity.
People keep electing governments based on ideology. I agree that ideology matters but in the end it is integrity that counts the most. (Of course that is also assuming that they have the intelligence to do the job.)
Zen Deist writes:
If the same amount of money had been distributed to pay for the foreclosures, then those bankruptcies would not have occurred, the banks would not have been in a position to fail, and the economy would not have suffered the domino effect that we have seen. If - at the same time - regulations had been revived or put into place, such that the "sub-prime" were no longer legal, and no new mortgages would qualify without proper assets (a condition we have now by default rather than regulation) then we would be further along the road to recovery -- recovery from decades of a failed experiment in economics.
A lot of those homes that were foreclosed on were bought by people who already had nice homes but speculated and bought high end properties. It wasn't just those at the bottom end of the food chain. You would have those that lived within their budget pay for those that didn't, and a lot of those that did live within their budget did so on very modest incomes.
I do however agree with your comments on regulation.
Cheers

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2011 10:23 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
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