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Author Topic:   "If I descended from an ape, how come apes are still here?"
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 256 of 286 (657985)
04-01-2012 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Coyote
03-26-2012 8:47 PM


Re: Ducking?
Coyote writes:

I would be interested in your reasons for ignoring my posts.

I think I've snubbed you before. Don't be so surprised.😜


This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Coyote, posted 03-26-2012 8:47 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Coyote, posted 04-02-2012 1:03 AM Big_Al35 has responded
 Message 259 by subbie, posted 04-02-2012 3:57 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5541
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 257 of 286 (658042)
04-02-2012 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Big_Al35
04-01-2012 3:18 PM


Re: Ducking?
You have shown complete ignorance of the subject, and refused to engage me in a debate because I exhibit some real knowledge of the subject.

You should be banned for that--that's trolling behavior.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Big_Al35, posted 04-01-2012 3:18 PM Big_Al35 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Big_Al35, posted 04-02-2012 4:26 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 6014
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 258 of 286 (658141)
04-02-2012 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Big_Al35
03-27-2012 4:13 PM


Re: Let's talk about Al
Issues such as the effects of weathering, diet change, environmental factors, and medicine seem to be completely ignored.

Since when? These factors are not ignored.

I am not even convinced by your dating arguments.

What evidence would convince you? Why don't you find the current evidence convincing?

You will also notice that you completely failed to answer the questions in the post you replied to. Here they are again:

#1) What do you feel is the best explanation for the fossils that exist?
#2) What would you expect/need to see to be convinced that fossils represent changes over time from one set of features to a different set of features?

Why can't you answer these questions? They seem very pertinent to the topic at hand. Instead of us repeating the evidence that convinced us why don't you tell us what type of evidence would convince you? We are trying to be fair by putting the ball in your court. If there is no conceivable evidence that would convince you then now would be the time to fess up.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Big_Al35, posted 03-27-2012 4:13 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 61 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 259 of 286 (658148)
04-02-2012 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Big_Al35
04-01-2012 3:18 PM


Re: Ducking?
So in other words, you're just here to vomit baseless ideas into the wind and ignore actual evidence that people present you with. You're a run of the mill creo bible-thumper, nothing new here.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Big_Al35, posted 04-01-2012 3:18 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


(1)
Message 260 of 286 (658153)
04-02-2012 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Coyote
04-02-2012 1:03 AM


Re: Ducking?
Coyote writes:

You should be banned for that--that's trolling behavior.

Percy, is this your call? Should I be banned or not? Actually being banned would be a welcome relief. I might do something meaningful with my life.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Coyote, posted 04-02-2012 1:03 AM Coyote has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by subbie, posted 04-02-2012 6:38 PM Big_Al35 has responded
 Message 262 by Percy, posted 04-02-2012 6:58 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

    
subbie
Member (Idle past 61 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 261 of 286 (658164)
04-02-2012 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Big_Al35
04-02-2012 4:26 PM


Re: Ducking?
Doubtful. You're doing anything meaningful here. Not even anything original.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Big_Al35, posted 04-02-2012 4:26 PM Big_Al35 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Big_Al35, posted 04-10-2012 3:01 PM subbie has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 15500
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 262 of 286 (658167)
04-02-2012 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Big_Al35
04-02-2012 4:26 PM


Re: Ducking?
Big_Al35 writes:

Percy, is this your call? Should I be banned or not? Actually being banned would be a welcome relief. I might do something meaningful with my life.

I'm a participant in this thread, not a moderator, but I did send you a PM as Admin early this morning about the way you're conducting yourself in this thread. If you have questions I suggest you respond to the PM.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Big_Al35, posted 04-02-2012 4:26 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

    
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 263 of 286 (658875)
04-10-2012 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by subbie
04-02-2012 6:38 PM


Re: Ducking?
subbie writes:

Doubtful. You're doing anything meaningful here. Not even anything original.

I must have missed your ground breaking posts then! 😜


This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by subbie, posted 04-02-2012 6:38 PM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Taq, posted 04-10-2012 3:16 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded
 Message 265 by subbie, posted 04-10-2012 3:29 PM Big_Al35 has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 6014
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 264 of 286 (658877)
04-10-2012 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Big_Al35
04-10-2012 3:01 PM


Re: Ducking?
I must have missed your ground breaking posts then!

Tu quoque noted. Care to move this discussion along? Answering these questions would really help:

#1) What do you feel is the best explanation for the fossils that exist?
#2) What would you expect/need to see to be convinced that fossils represent changes over time from one set of features to a different set of features?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Big_Al35, posted 04-10-2012 3:01 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 61 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 265 of 286 (658881)
04-10-2012 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Big_Al35
04-10-2012 3:01 PM


Re: Ducking?
That you missed anything is hardly news or noteworthy.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Big_Al35, posted 04-10-2012 3:01 PM Big_Al35 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Big_Al35, posted 04-11-2012 5:51 PM subbie has acknowledged this reply

  
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 266 of 286 (659012)
04-11-2012 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by subbie
04-10-2012 3:29 PM


Re: Ducking?
subbie writes:

That you missed anything is hardly news or noteworthy.

Percy have a private word with subbie will you. He's not adding to the debate here!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by subbie, posted 04-10-2012 3:29 PM subbie has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Percy, posted 04-11-2012 6:57 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15500
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 267 of 286 (659016)
04-11-2012 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Big_Al35
04-11-2012 5:51 PM


Re: Ducking?
Big_Al35 writes:

Percy have a private word with subbie will you. He's not adding to the debate here!

As I said in my previous message, I'm a participant in this thread, not a moderator, but I did send you a PM about the way you're conducting yourself here. If you have any questions, including about why I won't be having "a private word with subbie," then I suggest you respond to the PM. There's only 33 messages left to go in this thread, it's seems a shame to waste so many of them.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Fix minor mistake.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Big_Al35, posted 04-11-2012 5:51 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

    
William Rea
Junior Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 12-23-2007


Message 268 of 286 (659183)
04-13-2012 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
10-12-2011 5:37 AM


If you have been asked this question then you need to make an assessment of the questioner before answering.

The question might be being asked sincerely from a purely ignorant stance. If this is the case then you have been given copious amounts of information that should sway a rational mind as it really is not that difficult a concept to grasp.

Because of the nature of this question I believe that it is most likely that you are being asked this question by a YEC. In which case you are probably also faced with a presuppositionalist, which means that you are wasting your time. I will leave it to you to look up Presuppositional Apologetics for yourself so you will know how to spot it. Their stance is not only self-contradictory it also contradicts the evidence of Physics, Chemistry, Geology, Cosmology etc.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 10-12-2011 5:37 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by angletracks, posted 04-24-2012 9:55 PM William Rea has responded

  
angletracks
Junior Member (Idle past 1708 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 04-24-2012


(1)
Message 269 of 286 (660365)
04-24-2012 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by William Rea
04-13-2012 9:08 AM


I agree that the question at the head of the thread betrays either a startling ignorance of the evolutionary explanation or is a failed attempt to mock it, so you are probably right to suggest that answering it in greater detail than has already been done will be of little advantage. Your suggestion that YECs are presuppositionalists interests me however. I suspect they are. And that they are not alone. Are you saying that scientists in the disciplines of physics, chemistry, geology and cosmology have found some epistemic foundation which involves no presuppositions? I donít say that the philosophy of a scientist invalidates her research, but I doubt the intimation that scientific research is carried out in an unproved-assumption-free environment, or that scientists are able to keep their presuppositions from affecting all the conclusions that are reached. And no, I am not a YEC; I just think the philosophy of science is often overlooked, and scientists are not always willing to own their own presuppositions. And no, I am not a YEC.

Here is a non-sequiter that Iíll toss up for grabs Ė since humans share much more genetic code with chimps than with dogs, how come dogs are so much better at reading and responding to our facial expression, our moods, and even our gestures?

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add a blank line between paragraphs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by William Rea, posted 04-13-2012 9:08 AM William Rea has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by dwise1, posted 04-24-2012 10:18 PM angletracks has responded
 Message 271 by Panda, posted 04-24-2012 10:25 PM angletracks has not yet responded
 Message 272 by PaulK, posted 04-25-2012 1:39 AM angletracks has responded
 Message 276 by William Rea, posted 04-29-2012 3:54 AM angletracks has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 2687
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 270 of 286 (660367)
04-24-2012 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by angletracks
04-24-2012 9:55 PM


Are you saying that scientists in the disciplines of physics, chemistry, geology and cosmology have found some epistemic foundation which involves no presuppositions?

Are you distinguishing between actual presuppositions that have no basis in evidence and apparent presuppositions which are actually the conclusions reached by a couple centuries or more of observation and experimentation that form the fundamental bases of those sciences?

Here is a non-sequiter that Iíll toss up for grabs Ė since humans share much more genetic code with chimps than with dogs, how come dogs are so much better at reading and responding to our facial expression, our moods, and even our gestures?

Because chimpanzees are not domesticate whereas dogs are domesticated and we've bred those traits into them. For example, how well do wolves do in reading and responding to humans?

On a science show (on the Science Channel, I seem to recall), just such an experiment had been conducted at a university in Finland. The humans were given puppies to raise, mainly as the control and also to train the humans in raising a dog. Then the humans were given wolf cubs to raise. Even though they treated them the same and raised them the same, the wolf cubs did not at all respond like the domesticated dogs did, usually ignoring the humans as they'd try to get them to mind (eg, to not jump up onto the table to get at whatever was there). In one exercise, a treat was hidden under one of two bowls and the human was to, without moving her head, direct her eyes to the bowl with the treat. The dogs followed her eyes and went right to the treat, whereas the wolves took no notice of her and so could not follow her cue.

The same show looked at an experiment in Russia on domesticating silver foxes through selective breeding. I forget how many generations it took to produce a silver fox who was not only docile, but also sought affection from and interaction with people, but it was less than 30 generations. They also bred a hyper-hostile breed of silver fox.

Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by angletracks, posted 04-24-2012 9:55 PM angletracks has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by angletracks, posted 04-25-2012 8:27 PM dwise1 has responded
 Message 275 by angletracks, posted 04-25-2012 9:07 PM dwise1 has responded

    
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