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Author | Topic: What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||
IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
The fundamental things apply. And this says that the water and the land were seperated; the 'HOW' is for each generation's knowledge status to debate.
The other fundamental factor is the 'WHY'. Of note this verse apears immediately prior to the emergence of life forms, some of which live on land and some on water. This makes it an anticipatory action for the sustainence and habitat of various kinds of forthcoming life forms. The scientific formular applicable here, and the only one which is coherent, is thus: THE DINNER TABLE IS READY FOR THE GUESTS.
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Trixie Member (Idle past 3734 days) Posts: 1011 From: Edinburgh Joined: |
This is just a quick reply as I'm a bit pushed for time.
ICANT writes: So it makes more sense to you that the writer used Earth in Genesis 10:25 to mean tribal or national split/division rather than the words he used in 10:5, 20, 31, and 32 Did the writer use Earth or did the translators? In the time of Moses would the writer have any concept of Earth? Earth, with a capital "E", is the name of the planet. This is discussed in the thread I gave you the link for.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes: Did the writer use Earth or did the translators? Genesis 1:1 The Hebrew word ארץ is translated Earth. All definitions I give will be from Genesius's Hebrew Lexicon.
ארץ means:earth 1) whole earth (as opposed to a part) 2) earth (as opposed to heaven)
ארץ is translated Earth in Genesis 1:1, 2, 10, 11, 12, 15, 17, 20, 22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30. This is just the first chapter in the Bible. גוי translated nations means:1) nation, people משפחה translated families means:clan 1) family 2) tribe These two Hebrew words are used in Genesis chapter 10 in verses 5, 20, 31, 32. You find sandwiched between verse 20 and 31 verse 10 which has the Hebrew word: ארץ translated Earth. So no the translators did not supply the Hebrew words they supplied the English words for the Hebrew words that is what translation is.
Trixie writes: In the time of Moses would the writer have any concept of Earth? Earth, with a capital "E", is the name of the planet. The man who was privileged to view God and spent 40 days with Him would have had all the knowledge he needed to write what God told Him to write. That is why he could write about the creation, the flood, the scattering of the people and the division of the Earth.
Trixie writes: This is discussed in the thread I gave you the link for. Did you read the thread you are refering me too? I have 15 posts in that thread. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: What Genesis says about the Noah flood. The opening preamble in the text: Pre-amble: Pre means before the start. Are you saying that chapter 6 has nothing to do with the flood of Noah?
IamJoseph writes: And that is why no wild animals are listed. quote: What animal is left out of "every living thing of all flesh"? If it was alive there was to be at least a male and a female on the ark. Are you saying there was no wild animals alive on the planet Earth at the time Noah lived? God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Yes, 'THOU AND THY HOUSEHOLLD' [only] is the preamble relating to Noah and his possessions, confirmed with 'RIGHTIOUS IN "THIS" [Noah's] GENERATION', the size of the boat and that not a single wild animal is listed.
'ALL FLESH' refers to said animals and community in Noah's immediate region only; it is how this was seen from that town's POV. Any other reading conflicts with the textual coherence, and becomes inconsistant with the otherwise pritine accuracy of historical details of the texts which is superior in its veracity to anything else on record. This is an excellently ilntelligent text and must be read that way.
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Trixie Member (Idle past 3734 days) Posts: 1011 From: Edinburgh Joined: |
IamJoseph writes: 'ALL FLESH' refers to said animals and community in Noah's immediate region only How do you reconcile that with
Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, 9There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. 15And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. The text states that everything not on the ark will die in the flood and that those animals on the ark will provide "seed" for after the flood.
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. You may believe that the text is an exaggeration of a local flood, and you may be right, but there is no way that you can claim textual support saying wild animals weren't included.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Not a single wild animal [non-domestic] is listed. Clean animals refer to consumable ones [which includes some creepy crawlies and large insects]; unclean refers to non-consumable beasts of burden.
I listed numerous governing factors [text verses & words], which cannot be overlooked, bypassed or disregarded; these are only alignable with my position. Only the life forms in Noah's household/possessions were called for [the text]; only these entered the ark [the absence of any wild animals in the text]. This was an agricultural epoch of humanity, its people having large Texas style lands with a host of life forms utilized for food and trading. They usually never ventured outside their towns for most of their lives; many never even knew there were other lands or nations. This regional flood appeared to them as a global one, and the writings reflect this authentically of its period - aka 'SPEAKING IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE PEOPLE". All anti-creationists focus on what they can impound on and connect with their agenda, while playing 3 blind mice of millions of stats introduced for the first time to humanity in the Hebrew writings. The Hebrew writings are NOT a Walt Disney story.
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Trixie Member (Idle past 3734 days) Posts: 1011 From: Edinburgh Joined: |
This thread is about what the text says, not what you take it to mean. Once again, how do you reconcile the quotes I provided with your assertion that the texts say only Noah's domesticated animals went onboard the ark?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: I did, catering to every word in your quote, also then aligning it with the actual texts you left out! The text is not exaggerating any place, but speaking authentic to its contextual period. Tasmania never existed then - and the boat landed nearby in the same region - near Mount Ararat! I can list a host of factors and texts you guys blatantly ignore. Comprehension of the text is the first measuring yardstick of any pretend science.
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Trixie Member (Idle past 3734 days) Posts: 1011 From: Edinburgh Joined: |
You have not addressed what I wrote and saying you have doesn't make it so.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The God character in the Genesis 6 version of the flood myth has this to say.
quote: Now there is little local in that statement. It clearly says "from the face of the earth". The God character in the version of the story in Genesis 7 goes even further.
quote: The God character in the Genesis 6 fable just kills off man and beast and creeping things and fowls of the air while the God character in the Genesis 7 fable says he will kill off every living substance. In both fables though "From off the face of the earth" is specifically stated.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Which part?
quote: No it does not. It says clean & unclean beasts are to be entered into the arc. I addressed this in my response. The seed factor does not impact - it is required in a regional or global famine.
quote: Its not about 'and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth'. Its about 'and every living substance that I have made [the life forms of Noah's possessions were made by God as well as those which will die] will I destroy from off the face of the earth [Noah's earth region which Noah lives and knows]' When the text is comprehensively employed, there is no other reading of it. Your and many others are disconnectiung the applicable factors in the text, and then a blatantly impossible and incoherent result is condoned: the boat size and the total absence of a single wild animal does not align with your conclusion. A host of other factors in the text also contradict your conclusion, especially the view this is not a superior literary work of the highest wisdom - clearly its grammar proves this. Grammar is like math; the verses are like equations; one cannot leave out pivotal equations and keep shouting Eureka!
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: No sir, it does not say 'from the face of the earth'. It points only to those outside of Noah's possessions [the text you ignored]. We find this fully confirmed when we check the geneology listing, and a clear premise says Tasmanians, Norweegians, New Yorkers were not around; while Babylonians, Egyptians, Phoenecians, Medianites, etc - never mentioned it, even though they have various forms of writings and no history of being wiped out. The God character in the version of the story in Genesis 7 goes even further.
quote: Every living creature in Noah's region. There is no contradictions here. Let me show you an exact replicated scenario in the same book of Genesis. When Sodom was destroyed, its people saw it as the world was destroyed. This is in the text, whereby a man [Lot] who escaped the disaster by hiding in a mountain crevice with his two daughters. When he was asleep, his daughters thought ot concieving by him - to preserve humanity. Its not a fable if it lists names, places and dates, with evidence this is correctly portrayed in the texts. Fables have no verifiable locations such as historical mountains and rivers.
quote: But I'm not handicaped. Look: Alexander: "I will destroy the Persian king Darius from off the face of the earth". Tasmania excluded. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 762 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
the total absence of a single wild animal does not align with your conclusion. "And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth." Tame raven, obviously......
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: I can list a host of factors and texts you guys blatantly ignore. Then back up your assertions with the Hebrew text that supports that only domesticated animals were allowed onboard the ark. Back up your assertion that unclean animals refer to beasts of burden.
IamJoseph writes: Comprehension of the text is the first measuring yardstick of any pretend science. Then you missed the boat a long time ago. We can start understand with your presentation of the texts asked for in this post. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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