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Author Topic:   Where did the water come from and where did it go?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 226 of 300 (646198)
01-03-2012 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Percy
01-02-2012 6:34 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Percy,

Percy writes:

Do I have this right?

You are only partly correct.

Percy writes:

The Earth used to be much smaller. It was bombarded over long periods of time by asteroids and comets, and much water, vegetation and living creatures became deeply buried, providing the source for deeply buried oil and water and fossils. The water emerged during the flood,

OK so far.

Percy writes:

and perhaps was augmented by more comets.

This is a possibility but not necessary.

Percy writes:

After the flood, some of the water became superheated steam that turned into hydrous minerals and disappeared into the mantle

That is not in my model nor has it ever been. It comes about because of assumptions you made.

In message Message 130 I said:

quote:
Well no, I have proposed that the water in the mantle under 100 C is hot water. Water in the mantle between 100 C and 176.6666666666 C is steam. Water in the mantle between 176.6666666666 C and 815 C would be superheated steam.

Steam rises and as it does so it will cool until it condenses into water and that water as it rises will cool.

So I am not proposing that superheated steam will be released into the ocean.


If you will read carefully what I have said you will notice I have never proposed what you are proposing.

I did state any water that in the mantle under 100 C would be hot water. As it gets closer to the surface it cools.

I could just as easily say that any water that reaches 100 C becomes steam.

Any water in the lithosphere or mantle that reaches 176.6666666666 C is superheated steam.

Those are true today as is proven on a daily basis in boilers around the world.

So no you need to leave your above statement out.

Percy writes:

and some of the water remained on the surface and depressed regions downward into the subterranean caverns previously occupied by the fountains of the deep

As far as I know all the water stayed on the surface. The caverns that had been emptied of the water that covered the land mass collapsed reducing the elevation of the water until dry land appeared that the ark landed on. When the caverns collapsed the depression would have held all the water that had been expelled from them.

This could account for the continental crust that is underwater around the world.

In Message 1 I stated: This file is a ppp.
here

You can find the pdf. file Here

In this ppp. file it shows the Caribbean Sea except for one small part is oceanic crust in dark red, the rest is either oceanized crust or continental crust. These land masses are under up to 25,000 feet of water.

How did that continental crust get there? At one time it had to be above water.

This is just one example of many around the world where continents that have been above water and now exist under thousands of feet of water.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Percy, posted 01-02-2012 6:34 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by jar, posted 01-03-2012 6:00 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 229 by Percy, posted 01-03-2012 6:26 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 230 by Coragyps, posted 01-03-2012 7:42 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 227 of 300 (646211)
01-03-2012 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by edge
01-02-2012 6:56 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi edge,

edge writes:

Ummm, actually, yes. You are looking at raw data.

More like some man or mens interpertated of what the raw data says.

edge writes:

I didn't know that they had seismic tomography in those days.

Who said they did?

edge writes:

Sounds fascinating. Do you have some data we could look at?

Concerning what?

edge writes:

I suppose then that you are not going to use the old same-data-different-interpretation argument on this thread...

Scientist have used that argument since the advent of modern science.

You have what you believe and I have presented what scientist have said about the information you and others have presented.

I don't have an argument as to what the data says. All I have is what scientist have said that is recorded.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by edge, posted 01-02-2012 6:56 PM edge has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29601
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 228 of 300 (646231)
01-03-2012 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by ICANT
01-03-2012 4:16 PM


water ---> steam
ICANT writes:

I could just as easily say that any water that reaches 100 C becomes steam.

You could make such a statement but of course it would be wrong and show that you have no idea what is involved in changing water to steam.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 4:16 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 8:43 PM jar has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16143
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 229 of 300 (646235)
01-03-2012 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by ICANT
01-03-2012 4:16 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi ICANT,

I'm not trying to tell you what your model is. You're supposed to be telling us what your model is, but you are revealing it in dribs and drabs. All I'm trying to do is collect those dribs and drabs into a single paragraph describing your model. I'd prefer that you do this yourself, but you're apparently reluctant, so let me try again:

The Earth used to be much smaller. It was bombarded over long periods of time by asteroids and comets, and much water, vegetation and living creatures became deeply buried, providing the source for deeply buried oil and water and fossils. The water emerged during the flood, and perhaps was augmented by more comets. The water remained on the surface and depressed regions downward into the subterranean caverns previously occupied by the fountains of the deep.

If this is wrong and doesn't represent your views then there is no need to build arguments about how it is wrong. If it is an incorrect representation of your views then just say so and I will believe you. There is no reason to misrepresent your views, because then we would end up criticizing the wrong views.

Just correct the mistakes, that's all that's needed.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 4:16 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 8:28 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5295
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 230 of 300 (646242)
01-03-2012 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by ICANT
01-03-2012 4:16 PM


Re: Miles of rock
I could just as easily say that any water that reaches 100 C becomes steam.

Any water in the lithosphere or mantle that reaches 176.6666666666 C is superheated steam.

Those are true today as is proven on a daily basis in boilers around the world.

Well, no, that isn't true at all. Any (pure) water anywhere that's at 177 C and at a pressure over 136 pounds per square inch is hot water. Liquid hot water. Water hotter than 374 C or 705 F is vapor (or steam) regardless of pressure.

I have worked around wells into the lithosphere in California and Costa Rica that tap into either liquid- or vapor-form water, all hotter than 176.66666 C. Pressure enters in to it, ICANT.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 4:16 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 9:00 PM Coragyps has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 231 of 300 (646245)
01-03-2012 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by edge
01-02-2012 7:21 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi edge,

edge writes:

Can you document this.

Here under subduction.

edge writes:

Why is that? Please explain.

edge writes:

Documentation,

All from same document.

edge writes:

In what year did they say this?

1974 others as late as 1999.

edge writes:

The bible does not infer. You do.

The people in the day of the Bible thought it was all in one place as there are maps of a land mass encircled with water carved on a stone. I just assume they got it from what they thought the Bible said in that day. If that wasn't the way they got their information they had to walk all the way around it to have such a belief.

edge writes:

Yes some millions of years ago.

And what effect does that have on me?

edge writes:

You have asserted so. There is no evidence that it was smaller at any time in the past hundreds of million years.

And what does that have to do with what I said?

edge writes:

Yes, millions of years ago. Or billions...

And what problem does that cause me?

edge writes:

During such a bombardment? Millions of years ago?

What problem does that create for me?

edge writes:

Nonsense. Why would water stay under the surface?

What would force the water out of the Earth?

Unless the water was deposited at a higher elevation and then migrated to a lower place where it could exit. There would not be enough pressure underground to force the water to the surface as there is in the Earth now.

As the Earth grew and the solids settled the weight of the materials compacted the material below them until they turned into all kind of solids, even granite and denser materials.

The water trapped under some of those materials that they could not penetrate in any volume would come under great pressure.

edge writes:

Yes, these are continental shelves.

If it is continental shelves, why is the entire Caribbean Sea floor covered with continental crust as well as the Gulf of Mexico with only a very small portion of oceanic crust?

edge writes:

The life forms were trapped by sedimentary processes not cosmic bombardment. Please provide evidence to the contrary.

Do mean that the materials from the asteroids would not cause sediment if there was water to settle in?

Anyway here is one reference.
Here

edge writes:

Not possible. Having the quantities of water you require stored for just the right moment is unrealistic.

Are you telling me since there is enough water in the Earth to fill our present oceans 7 to 10 times there could not have been enough water stored in the Earth to cause Noah's flood?

edge writes:

Again this does not make sense. Why would water flow into a collapsed cavern?

Do you have a reading problem?

How could water flow into something that had ceased to exist as a cavern and became a hole.

The water could fill the hole that had been created by the colapse of the overburden over the cavern.

edge writes:

Where are these collapse caverns?

Under 2,000 to 25,000 feet of water around the world. They are called sumerged continents.

edge writes:

There should be a robust geologic record of this event.

There is you just don't accept it.

edge writes:

See above.

There is no argumentation above in your post that shows that what I have presented is an impossibility.

Care to try again.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by edge, posted 01-02-2012 7:21 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by edge, posted 01-04-2012 1:48 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 244 by edge, posted 01-04-2012 4:32 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 253 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-04-2012 8:02 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 232 of 300 (646253)
01-03-2012 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Percy
01-03-2012 6:26 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Percy,

Percy writes:

The Earth used to be much smaller. It was bombarded over long periods of time by asteroids and comets, and much water, vegetation and living creatures became deeply buried, providing the source for deeply buried oil and water and fossils. The water emerged during the flood, and perhaps was augmented by more comets. The water remained on the surface and depressed regions downward into the subterranean caverns previously occupied by the fountains of the deep.

Re-stated as:

In time past the Earth was much smaller than it is today. The Earth was bombarded over long, separate periods of time by asteroids that provided much materials and comets that provided much water. Between the different times of bombardment there was life forms on Earth. There was shallow watery areas that produced much life forms which got covered in later bombardments. A few times the Earth was hit by huge asteroids that killed almost every life form on Earth but the Earth was able to recover. The materials that was buried in the Earth provided the trillions of tons of material that produce the oil, natural gas and later the coal.

The water that was trapped in the Earth migrated to areas that was void of material or very loose material. As the Earth increased in size all the water in the ground was placed under greater and greater pressure.

When the water in those areas was released into the ocean it produce the rise in the water level that caused the flood of Noah. The overburden over the places that had been vacated by the water used to flood the Earth became weaker over time and collapsed causing the overburden which had at one time been above sea level to sink to the bottom. Therefore the water that had been in the Earth was now in the craters created by the collapse of the overburden.

This in turn caused the flood waters to receed and cause dry land to appear which the ark became marooned on.

Is that sufficient for where the water came from and where it went?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Percy, posted 01-03-2012 6:26 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 233 of 300 (646257)
01-03-2012 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by jar
01-03-2012 6:00 PM


Re: water ---> steam
Hi jar,

jar writes:

You could make such a statement but of course it would be wrong and show that you have no idea what is involved in changing water to steam.

Water boils at 212 which is the same at 100 C. When water boils steam rises from the boiling water.

Steam is produced from 212 F to 350 F which is the same as 100 C to 176.66666666666668 C. At 350 it is considered superheated steam.

Now if those numbers are wrong give the correct numbers.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by jar, posted 01-03-2012 6:00 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by jar, posted 01-03-2012 8:51 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 235 by anglagard, posted 01-03-2012 8:53 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29601
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 234 of 300 (646258)
01-03-2012 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by ICANT
01-03-2012 8:43 PM


Re: water ---> steam
It is the process that you don't seem to understand.

What is needed to change water state? How do you change water at 100C into steam at 100C?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 8:43 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 9:04 PM jar has responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2170
From: Big Spring, TX, USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 235 of 300 (646260)
01-03-2012 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by ICANT
01-03-2012 8:43 PM


Re: water ---> steam
Oh for christ's-sake, don't you know what a Phase diagram is?

Evidently not now or ever.

Edited by anglagard, : Punctuation


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 8:43 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 236 of 300 (646261)
01-03-2012 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Coragyps
01-03-2012 7:42 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Coragyps,

Coragyps writes:

Pressure enters in to it, ICANT.

Then I stand corrected.

The only dealings I have had with steam is with boilers and have never put a hole in the ground to find steam.

The only difference would be is that liquid water would be available much deeper in the Earth making twice the amount of water available to produce water for the flood. Which only helps my case, with the amount of water available.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Coragyps, posted 01-03-2012 7:42 PM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Coragyps, posted 01-03-2012 9:24 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 237 of 300 (646262)
01-03-2012 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by jar
01-03-2012 8:51 PM


Re: water ---> steam
Hi jar,

jar writes:

How do you change water at 100C into steam at 100C?

Put cold water in a tea kettle and put it on the burner on the stove and turn the heat on high. When the temperature reaches 100 C the kettle will begin to whistle as the steam exits the kettle.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by jar, posted 01-03-2012 8:51 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Percy, posted 01-03-2012 9:09 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 239 by jar, posted 01-03-2012 9:17 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16143
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 238 of 300 (646265)
01-03-2012 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by ICANT
01-03-2012 9:04 PM


Re: water ---> steam
ICANT writes:

Put cold water in a tea kettle and put it on the burner on the stove and turn the heat on high. When the temperature reaches 100 C the kettle will begin to whistle as the steam exits the kettle.

And what temperature will you measure in Denver, Colorado?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 9:04 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29601
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 239 of 300 (646268)
01-03-2012 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by ICANT
01-03-2012 9:04 PM


Re: water ---> steam
And you still show you do not understand the process, so I will ask you again.

How do you change water at 100C to steam at 100C?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 9:04 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5295
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 240 of 300 (646271)
01-03-2012 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by ICANT
01-03-2012 9:00 PM


Re: Miles of rock
The only difference would be is that liquid water would be available much deeper in the Earth making twice the amount of water available to produce water for the flood.

Steam for the Fludde. Old Faithful is a very mild example; wells around Indio, California can produce maybe a million pounds of steam per hour.

When you take water at 600F and reduce the applied pressure to 14.7 psi, quite a bit of it flashes to steam. Think Mark Twain and Mississippi steamboats exploding.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by ICANT, posted 01-03-2012 9:00 PM ICANT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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