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Author Topic:   Where did the water come from and where did it go?
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5266
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 271 of 300 (662455)
05-15-2012 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by NoNukes
05-15-2012 10:15 PM


That suggests that small changes in the volume of water can result in relatively large changes in the amount of land that is submerged.

Not just a suggestion - a fact. Something like 60 meters higher if the poles were to melt.

So we would never have to worry about elections in Florida again.

http://geology.com/sea-level-rise/


This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by NoNukes, posted 05-15-2012 10:15 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Jzyehoshua
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 272 of 300 (663667)
05-26-2012 4:00 AM


CreationWiki Points
The following are some points I made recently on a Creationwiki topic of this exact name (my own writing/sourcing):

http://creationwiki.org/...#Where_did_the_water_come_from.3F

"Recent discoveries have revealed that the inner earth may hold more water than the seas. Analysis of the earth's likely composition in 2002 revealed "there may be more H2O deep underground than in all oceans, lakes, and rivers combined."[9] In 2007, scientists discovered for the first time that a vast 'ocean' exists beneath Asia that is at least the volume of the Arctic Ocean.[10] According to National Geographic, the water appears locked in moisture-containing rocks discovered through scanning seismic waves[11], but further discoveries could follow.[12]"

[9] Harder, Ben (2002, March 7). "Inner Earth May Hold More Water than the Seas." National Geographic. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...7_0307_waterworld.html

[10] Than, Ker (2007, February 28). "Huge 'Ocean' Discovered Inside Earth." LiveScience. http://www.livescience.com/...ge-ocean-discovered-earth.html

[11] Lovett, Richard A. (2007, February 7). "Huge Underground 'Ocean' Found Beneath Asia." National Geographic. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...070227-ocean-asia.html

[12] Harder, Ben (2010, November 8). "Earth Contains a Vast Amount of Water, But Scientists Are Unsure of Its Origins." Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../11/08/AR2010110804478.html

Bryner, Jeanna (2007, October 1). "Huge Stores of Oxygen Found Deep Inside Earth." LiveScience. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...s-oxygen-found-deep-inside-earth

Krulwich, Robert (2011, June 23). "How Much Water Is There On Earth? Magellan Would Be Shocked." NPR. http://www.npr.org/...ere-on-earth-magellan-would-be-shocked

Edited by Jzyehoshua, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Coragyps, posted 05-27-2012 10:38 PM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded
 Message 277 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-28-2012 12:18 AM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded

  
Evangelical Humanists
Junior Member (Idle past 1636 days)
Posts: 14
Joined: 05-27-2012


Message 273 of 300 (663900)
05-27-2012 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taz
11-29-2011 7:51 PM


Kent Hovind? Your not serious I hope.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Taz, posted 11-29-2011 7:51 PM Taz has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Percy, posted 05-27-2012 6:20 PM Evangelical Humanists has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 15562
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 274 of 300 (663902)
05-27-2012 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Evangelical Humanists
05-27-2012 6:11 PM


Hi EH! Welcome aboard!

If you read Taz's message again with a dry and sarcastic tone it will make more sense.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Evangelical Humanists, posted 05-27-2012 6:11 PM Evangelical Humanists has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Evangelical Humanists, posted 05-27-2012 6:25 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Evangelical Humanists
Junior Member (Idle past 1636 days)
Posts: 14
Joined: 05-27-2012


Message 275 of 300 (663903)
05-27-2012 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Percy
05-27-2012 6:20 PM


Got it. I did. See what you mean. Sorry Taz. And thanks for the welcome.

Edited by Evangelical Humanists, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Percy, posted 05-27-2012 6:20 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5266
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 276 of 300 (663952)
05-27-2012 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Jzyehoshua
05-26-2012 4:00 AM


Re: CreationWiki Points
the water appears locked in moisture-containing rocks...

What do you suppose that word that begins with "L" means, Jz? And at what temperature do you suppose the water and rock 30 km beneath the Himilayas is?


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-26-2012 4:00 AM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15789
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 277 of 300 (663961)
05-28-2012 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Jzyehoshua
05-26-2012 4:00 AM


Re: CreationWiki Points
Hmm .... "The water is locked in moisture-containing rocks 400 to 800 miles (700 to 1,400 kilometers) beneath the surface." ... "It would still look like solid rock to you, Wysession told LiveScience. "You would have to put it in the lab to find the water in it."

So this water climbed out of the rocks and then went back in again? How did that happen?

You guys need a slogan. How about: "CreationWiki ... For When AiG Isn't Dumb Enough".

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-26-2012 4:00 AM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by bluescat48, posted 05-28-2012 12:26 AM Dr Adequate has responded
 Message 280 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-28-2012 1:29 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 1572 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 278 of 300 (663962)
05-28-2012 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Dr Adequate
05-28-2012 12:18 AM


Re: CreationWiki Points
I guess
that would make sense to them, they believe in talking snakes, having the sun & moon stop on voice command & parting of the Red Sea.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-28-2012 12:18 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-28-2012 12:58 AM bluescat48 has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15789
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 279 of 300 (663965)
05-28-2012 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by bluescat48
05-28-2012 12:26 AM


Re: CreationWiki Points
Right, but in that case why make reference to real things at all? The water appeared out of nowhere because God wanted it to, and then poofed away into nothing because God told it to. What's wrong with saying that? But if instead creationists want to produce a naturalistic explanation for their flood, then they are obliged to give us a bit more detail.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by bluescat48, posted 05-28-2012 12:26 AM bluescat48 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by bluescat48, posted 05-28-2012 3:30 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3488
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 280 of 300 (663966)
05-28-2012 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Dr Adequate
05-28-2012 12:18 AM


Mantle water - Better than vapor canopy
You guys need a slogan. How about: "CreationWiki ... For When AiG Isn't Dumb Enough".

I must disagree. Beats the heck out of "vapor canopy", even if the "getting it out and getting it back" is highly problematic.

I give him a (+) for at least having a real talking point. Do you really think you're going to get anything better (please, only answer if it's an honest "yes")?

Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-28-2012 12:18 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 1572 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 281 of 300 (663968)
05-28-2012 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by Dr Adequate
05-28-2012 12:58 AM


Re: CreationWiki Points
Oh, I agree. What gets me is that when they try, their idioms are even more far-fetched.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-28-2012 12:58 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 879
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 282 of 300 (677464)
10-30-2012 1:17 AM


I am of the opinion the biblical flood was a local flood in the black sea and caspian sea right before the emergence of the sumerian civilization. In the bible, we don't hear of any civilizations prior to the founding of the tower of babel. I believe it was civilized man that God created in the garden of eden. There were other humans before that time but adam was the first to have a soul breathed into him by God. Eve was supernaturally created by God from the body of adam. These were the first self conscious humans. Other humanoids starting with the australopithecus were mere animals with no soul. These supernaturally created homo sapiens migrated out of mesopotamia into the black sea and caspian sea areas. Because of their great difference in being able to think abstractly and higher ordered reasoning processes, they separated themselves from other homo sapiens. They had nothing in common with them. When God brings the great flood and destroys all flesh upon the earth, he is not lying. He does destroy all the flesh that he supernaturally created and the ecology that supported that flesh living in the black sea area. The nephilim that are mentioned in the bible before and after the flood are merely that offspring of adams race of homosapiens and the race of homosapiens who were not given a soul by God.

Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 15562
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 283 of 300 (677499)
10-30-2012 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by foreveryoung
10-30-2012 1:17 AM


What has this to do with where the water came from and where it went?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by foreveryoung, posted 10-30-2012 1:17 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by mindspawn, posted 01-16-2013 4:45 PM Percy has responded

    
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 43 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 284 of 300 (687802)
01-16-2013 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Percy
10-30-2012 8:49 AM


There is a lot of water vapor in our atmosphere, limited in extent by the tropopause, but this tropopause can vary in height according to temperatures. Colder temperatures mean higher tropopause and more water vapor in the air. A sudden increase in atmospheric temperature, as occurred during the volcanic Siberian Traps, would lower the tropopause releasing huge amounts of precipitation from the atmosphere. The seeding and air circulation caused by the volcanic activity would have contributed towards excessive rainfalls.

Thus the source of water for the flood was from the continental changes during the PT boundary, combined with precipitation from a lowered tropopause and volcanic activity, and also from the melting of the ice caps and melting of glaciation caused by the increased temperatures from the Siberian traps.

The flood water most likely receded when water flowed into the great chasm when Pangea first split.

Edited by mindspawn, : No reason given.

Edited by mindspawn, : No reason given.

Edited by mindspawn, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Percy, posted 10-30-2012 8:49 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-16-2013 6:08 PM mindspawn has responded
 Message 296 by Percy, posted 01-17-2013 9:14 AM mindspawn has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15789
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 285 of 300 (687806)
01-16-2013 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by mindspawn
01-16-2013 4:45 PM


There is a lot of water vapor in our atmosphere, limited in extent by the tropopause, but this tropopause can vary in height according to temperatures. Colder temperatures mean higher tropopause and more water vapor in the air. A sudden increase in atmospheric temperature, as occurred during the volcanic Siberian Traps, would lower the tropopause releasing huge amounts of precipitation from the atmosphere. The seeding and air circulation caused by the volcanic activity would have contributed towards excessive rainfalls.

Thus the source of water for the flood was from the continental changes during the PT boundary, combined with precipitation from a lowered tropopause and volcanic activity, and also from the melting of the ice caps and melting of glaciation caused by the increased temperatures from the Siberian traps.

Show your working.

The flood water most likely receded when water flowed into the great chasm when Pangea first split.

Moving continental crust about does not reduce its volume. The rifting of Panagea would indeed have created an chasm into which water could flow, but it would also have made the Panthalassic Ocean smaller by a corresponding amount. It would also have created a mid-ocean ridge which would have raised sea levels, not lowered them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by mindspawn, posted 01-16-2013 4:45 PM mindspawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by mindspawn, posted 01-17-2013 2:11 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
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